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so

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welcome back to liminal frames i'm your

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host nathan and i'm joined by my co-host

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exo academia and today's episode is a

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little unconventional

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as you can probably tell

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we sound a little bit different

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and that's because we are in the studio

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of nature

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which

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is something new what do you think about

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this setting here exo

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yeah outside of my uh allergies i think

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it's great and um

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we are we're sitting in uh what's like

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78 degrees slight breeze

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sitting in the glory of the blue ridge

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mountains with some a couple soccer

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matches going on in the background folks

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it's it's a nice setting it really is

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it's uh the sun is kind of low in the

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sky

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and pollen is in the air

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we are

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dubbing this episode

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thinking outside the box

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that's kind of what we're going to be

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going through and uh unlike episodes

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that we've done uh in the past we're

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actually going to take some clips from

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uh youtube interviews with uh mainly lou

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elizondo but also sean cahill and we're

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going to take some of their thoughts and

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just kind of

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talk through them and and unpack them

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and see where they where the

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conversation takes us

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that that's sort of what we want to do

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here and we're going to we're

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experimenting and seeing how this goes

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so i'm going to queue up our first clip

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this came from a pretty recent interview

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that lou did

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with baptiste on explorer lab and this

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one is talking about uh microbial life

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so i'm going to get that cued up here

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and again forgive me for digressing here

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but but i think it's important

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uh

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we are a

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assume and presume

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far too often

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um the romans and and the greeks

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recognize that there are two two basic

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life forms on this planet

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there were animals and there were plants

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and it wasn't for for millennia later

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that we realized there was this other

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in-between kingdom called fungus

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that weren't really plants and they

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weren't really animals and and they they

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were their own life form on this planet

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right

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and and up until recently we thought

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that was it there is no other other

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other categories of life and it turns

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out only in the last century

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the last century now

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we've been around as homo sapien sapien

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for the last 100 000 years and yet

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in just the last 100 years

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the last

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10 minutes

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of of of

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of our of our of our existence on this

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planet

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we realize there's been this entire

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hidden

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living life form organisms if you will

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on this planet

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that if you were to take all the biomass

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of all the animals

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and take all the biomass of all the

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plants and take all the biomass of all

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the fungus on this planet and put it

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together it still would not equal the

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biomass of this hidden kingdom that of

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life form that we have discovered on

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this planet and that is the the kingdom

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of the of the mic where the realm of the

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microorganisms

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all right so

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i figured we'd stop it there a

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kind of great conversation

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uh with baptiste

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uh that lou is having there and what

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he's i guess what he's trying to do as

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far as i can tell is is get the listener

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to sort of think a little bit

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differently about the way in which our

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knowledge is expanding and how

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uh things that we've taken for granted

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in our history uh are not necessarily

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set in stone that they're they're in

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flux

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uh what would you take away with that

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yeah it's a really fascinating clip a

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couple things i took away from it

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one is just a reminder that that

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knowledge is very recent that we even

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became aware of this kind of category of

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life right

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and so he's partly saying you know when

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you think about the

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history of our species in such a recent

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window we could come to that knowledge

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it would be foolish for us to not assume

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that or to assume that we're done

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that there might be other categories of

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life not just types of like but

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categories of life that we're not even

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aware of

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even when i think about sometimes we

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look in the most you know the deepest

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trenches of the ocean or you look in

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like volcanic kind of sulfuric

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kind of ecosystems and we find life you

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know like life seems to flourish in

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really strange environments we wouldn't

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predict um

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and

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on top of that we kind of have this

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interesting

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uh symbiotic relationship between

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different kinds of of categories of life

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right you think about

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all the microorganisms that live off of

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us and have created kind of a symbiotic

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kind of arrangement with us

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even when you you have viruses like the

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pandemic with covid you know

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the goal of most viruses is to to find

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some sort of symbiotic arrangement so

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they can survive because if they kill

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the host it kind of not good news for

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them in the long run

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so and on top of that i was thinking

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about how

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there's evidence that when we think

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about ourselves we often think of

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you know the brain being the executive

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you know

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organizer of our information in some

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ways a sense of who we are

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and what's interesting is we now

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strongly sense that there's actually

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three different ways that the brain is

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activated interacted with

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so you have the brain you have the heart

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and you have the bacteria in the gut

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that also can trigger reactions in the

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brain electrochemical reactions

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so even the question of who we are who

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we really are not just like what kind of

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aliens exist outside of us but what kind

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of aliens might be symbiotically

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co-existing with us what does it mean to

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be me you know what does it mean to be

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you um these are fascinating questions

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and i i like what he's doing here

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and i would you know caution people this

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is something we're going to talk about a

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fair amount on this episode

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rather than running with this and going

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finally elizondo's giving us the goods

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this is what it's about

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that's not his aim here and i know that

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some of the sources i have anyway tell

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me that you know this is actively being

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investigated by people you know deep in

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government circles and it's very much an

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open question and it's very much being

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investigated investigated because it's

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not well understood yet so let's begin

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with that caveat yeah and just remember

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that what he's encouraging is outside

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the box thinking don't be

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don't expect not to be surprised

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yeah great point we're going to come

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back to that over and over in this

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episode and you know when i was doing

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the kind of research and grabbing the

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clips

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that we were going to be discussing you

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know what struck me the most is how

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often he's trying to get that point

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across that uh instead of him you know

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dropping breadcrumbs in the way that the

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community often interprets that to me in

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the sense that

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you know this is a direct fact that is

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related to whatever it happens to be

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i

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more and more was struck by the fact

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that really what lou is has been doing

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in the public square has really just

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been thinking aloud

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um and has been trying to get

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the audience

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topic to think differently about what it

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all might be and to me that that is uh

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of course a big part of what we're

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trying to do on our show

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but for those that um

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are either not as familiar with all of

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the times that he's done this

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uh or

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are uh you know have a little bit of

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amnesia um from the last time they did

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an interview and just cling on to that

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latest you know sort of blue fact as

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some type of gospel

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and i think it's a really important

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reminder um and it's easy to forget you

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know we've if you've been following this

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subject for the last few years

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you know you've

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you've probably forgotten more than most

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people know about ufos and uaps

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and so i think it's easy for us to

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you know who those of us who lack a lot

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of hard data hard information to grasp

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onto every little thing we can and say

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well this is

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this is it this is the cornerstone of of

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what the entire situation happens to be

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and we can run with this one idea

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and extrapolate out from that this

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entire sort of theory as to what this

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might be

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which is not to say that some of these

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breadcrumbs may in fact be just that

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they may be

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literal you know sort of arrows pointing

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at what this happens to be but

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more and more at least when i listened

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to these interviews i got the sense that

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lewd himself

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is not uh in possession of some sort of

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you know comprehensive

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manual that explains what is going on

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but instead the facts that he is privy

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to really do

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cause him and others to

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think more broadly think more abstractly

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than what people have thought about

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traditionally when it comes to the

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subject i just think that's very

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important to

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emphasize

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uh and you'll see that we're going to

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come back to that over and over as we go

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through these other clips on the show

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i mean

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beyond that kind of general i think

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guidance

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um

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what do you think are some of the other

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kind of traps that folks may fall into

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when it comes to

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you know listening to quote-unquote

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experts or those who are in the know

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that

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you know can can be kind of dangerous uh

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sort of traps to fall into if we're not

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being careful

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well i would first think about the fact

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that someone like louis elizondo has an

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intelligence background right and so one

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of the first things you learn in

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intelligence uh is that

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is how to learn

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how to think differently about gathering

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data how to think outside the box

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00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:25,120
becomes a skill that you must learn

286
00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:25,920
right

287
00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:27,760
and that

288
00:10:32,550 --> 00:10:30,160
the second you limit yourself to certain

289
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,560
possibilities you have

290
00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:34,800
alienated yourself

291
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:35,680
from

292
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:37,760
everything outside of those parameters

293
00:10:43,030 --> 00:10:39,839
and in something as

294
00:10:44,949 --> 00:10:43,040
you know mind-bending as the phenomenon

295
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:44,959
that's the last thing you want to do

296
00:10:48,550 --> 00:10:46,640
and i've noticed with elizondo over time

297
00:10:50,870 --> 00:10:48,560
he you know he sort of began

298
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,880
with some some glowing praise of the

299
00:10:54,870 --> 00:10:53,040
folks on ufo twitter who are you know

300
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:54,880
championing the cause

301
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:56,320
over time i think he's experienced some

302
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:58,079
frustration i think because he's asked

303
00:11:02,310 --> 00:11:00,160
the same questions over and over again

304
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:02,320
and the same assumptions are brought to

305
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:04,480
the table in the questions he's asked

306
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:05,680
and so

307
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,519
more recently i sense some frustration

308
00:11:10,870 --> 00:11:09,440
that he's trying to

309
00:11:13,509 --> 00:11:10,880
i think he may have used the word the

310
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:13,519
word annihilate at one point

311
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,920
the uh thinking inside of ufology

312
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:18,079
and here i'm reminded of jacques villa

313
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,640
uh has said the same thing you know that

314
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:22,399
you have mainstream science which is

315
00:11:26,069 --> 00:11:23,760
frustrating to him because they just

316
00:11:27,829 --> 00:11:26,079
refused to look at anything outside of

317
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:27,839
the parameters of mainstream science

318
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,720
which is not a scientific principle

319
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,959
and but he also has equal

320
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,200
critique for

321
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,120
the folks in ufology who are convinced

322
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:39,040
it's extraterrestrial and are only

323
00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:41,200
looking for data that will support that

324
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:43,200
that's again not a scientific approach

325
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:44,720
if you begin

326
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:46,640
with an assumption about what something

327
00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:48,720
is or what it can be

328
00:11:51,750 --> 00:11:49,600
you

329
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,760
are

330
00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:53,519
as a certainty

331
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:54,959
guaranteeing that anything that doesn't

332
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:56,639
fit one of those will be outside of your

333
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,120
purview and you will remain ignorant

334
00:12:03,509 --> 00:12:01,200
so what i what i hear here is that we

335
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,519
have to begin by broadening the scope as

336
00:12:08,069 --> 00:12:05,360
much as we can

337
00:12:11,269 --> 00:12:08,079
try to work with as few suppositions

338
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,279
assumptions as we can gather data then

339
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,600
look for patterns um and that's

340
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:15,519
something i certainly encourage and as

341
00:12:19,269 --> 00:12:17,360
long as i've been in this i'm sure you

342
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,279
feel the same way

343
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,040
it's still the data gathering stage it's

344
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:22,800
still it's still looking for patterns

345
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:25,440
and collecting data and let it teach us

346
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:27,440
rather than us go to it with these these

347
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:30,639
uh presuppositions about what it can be

348
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:33,839
well and not to uh you know sort of dive

349
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,240
too much down this

350
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:38,160
sort of rabbit hole i guess what i'm

351
00:12:41,430 --> 00:12:40,320
starting to think though is

352
00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:41,440
you know what's a good way to think

353
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:44,560
about what lou elizondo is doing in the

354
00:12:49,190 --> 00:12:46,959
in the space sort of generally you know

355
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:49,200
i think it does help for us

356
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,399
you know the best we can uh you know try

357
00:12:56,629 --> 00:12:54,560
to categorize his effort

358
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,639
uh try to

359
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,240
you know give it a

360
00:13:03,269 --> 00:13:00,399
a framework of meaning you know i think

361
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:03,279
a lot of the time we are

362
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:05,440
in the position of thinking that

363
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:07,680
we're like scribes of some kind you know

364
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:09,440
we're we're going to write down every

365
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:12,079
little nugget and and and we're going to

366
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:14,800
create some kind of a patchwork quilt

367
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,360
that if we do all this transcription

368
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:19,440
properly we'll when we step back and

369
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:20,480
look at it

370
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:22,800
will reveal to us you know what's really

371
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:25,200
there what's really going on

372
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:27,839
um and you know to some degree he may

373
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:29,120
have kind of

374
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:31,279
pushed on this idea a little bit or at

375
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,880
least promoted this idea a little bit

376
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,120
because he has used this term you know

377
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,440
i'm leaving breadcrumbs along the way so

378
00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:39,680
i do think there is an element of truth

379
00:13:42,790 --> 00:13:40,959
there that

380
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:42,800
in the midst of all of his

381
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:45,120
analogies and anecdotes whatever there

382
00:13:50,069 --> 00:13:48,480
are some real nuggets of what's going on

383
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:50,079
at the same time

384
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:53,360
i i really don't take him to mean that

385
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:55,519
what i just said that if if we listen to

386
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,279
a hundred of his interviews

387
00:14:01,750 --> 00:13:59,120
and we you know put it all down in some

388
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:01,760
sort of uh input into an ai machine that

389
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:03,600
we're going to get some sort of printout

390
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:04,560
that's

391
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:07,440
what is really happening um i feel like

392
00:14:12,069 --> 00:14:09,440
that's important to emphasize you know

393
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:12,079
because you know he himself seems to be

394
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:14,560
getting you know pretty exasperated with

395
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:15,600
kind of

396
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,199
this uh

397
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,680
hunger or craving for

398
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:21,360
you know the next thing he's going to

399
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,399
say and i think he probably and i am you

400
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,560
know just kind of putting words into his

401
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:28,320
mouth i would love for him to comment on

402
00:14:31,590 --> 00:14:29,440
this you know

403
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:31,600
uh i don't think he's wanting that i

404
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,600
don't think he won he no longer wants uh

405
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:35,440
folks to to do that and has probably

406
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:37,199
gotten to a place where he

407
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,040
has recognized that

408
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:40,880
his presence in the conversation is

409
00:14:45,590 --> 00:14:43,120
becoming more of a detraction

410
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:45,600
uh to this effort than than maybe a help

411
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,800
but i don't know what you would think

412
00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:48,480
about that you know what what is the

413
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:51,040
real purpose of all of these different

414
00:14:54,550 --> 00:14:52,880
you know opportunities to provide

415
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:54,560
insight

416
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:55,600
right well it's funny when you were

417
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:57,360
talking about that patchwork quilt kind

418
00:15:00,389 --> 00:14:59,120
of notion i was reminded of something

419
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,399
that was really interesting when i was

420
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,399
studying biblical studies and religious

421
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:04,480
studies uh

422
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,120
there actually was one of my profs

423
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:09,279
had actually been reading excerpts from

424
00:15:13,269 --> 00:15:11,120
some of the dead sea scrolls

425
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:13,279
and in these commentaries about certain

426
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:14,639
dead sea scrolls it hadn't been fully

427
00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:16,320
released right this one section of dead

428
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,320
sea scrolls had not been fully released

429
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:20,240
but what he was actually able to do

430
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,279
was in the the margins and in the the

431
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,120
quotations and the references he was

432
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:27,199
actually able to piece together an

433
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:28,399
entire

434
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:30,079
uh reconstruction of some of these dead

435
00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:31,600
sea scrolls even though they were not

436
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,440
meant to be released but he he was able

437
00:15:36,389 --> 00:15:35,360
to put it all together yes so i was just

438
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:36,399
thinking about that when you mentioned

439
00:15:38,949 --> 00:15:37,920
elizondo because that's that's basically

440
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:38,959
what people are trying to do they're

441
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,600
thinking if i take episode you know two

442
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,360
of this one show with episode nine he

443
00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:45,360
said over here

444
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,480
then uh

445
00:15:49,509 --> 00:15:48,000
and then reference just one comment he

446
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:49,519
made to someone in frustration clearly

447
00:15:53,189 --> 00:15:50,720
all those three things are saying

448
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:53,199
together that this is what it is right

449
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,800
and um

450
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:56,160
yeah i don't think that works that way

451
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:57,519
and i know that we're on the same page

452
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:58,720
about that

453
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:00,399
i think you know i get the sense that he

454
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:02,800
has seen himself as a kind of liaison or

455
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:04,800
an ambassador to some degree you know

456
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:07,040
like he's he's trying to

457
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:08,880
obviously gain traction in congress

458
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,519
because he knows that

459
00:16:16,310 --> 00:16:13,680
in military circles there's been

460
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:16,320
stigma and and various uh you know

461
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:17,920
thinking about this

462
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,600
people concerned about their careers you

463
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,199
know pushback

464
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:23,440
that they just haven't reported on it

465
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:25,440
and so we have even chris melons talked

466
00:16:29,670 --> 00:16:27,519
about we may be sitting on a wealth of

467
00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:29,680
data but no one's analyzing the data

468
00:16:31,629 --> 00:16:30,399
right

469
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,639
and because we have this kind of

470
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:33,920
stovepiping thing going on these silos

471
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:35,279
of information and the different

472
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:36,720
agencies and the different military

473
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,360
branches again maybe there's a wealth of

474
00:16:43,509 --> 00:16:41,040
data there and the patterns there to be

475
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:43,519
found but no one's looking right yeah

476
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:47,360
and no one has access to all the data so

477
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:49,040
guys like elizondo and melon have been

478
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:51,120
pushing to get congress involved because

479
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:53,040
they know that's how to get that kind of

480
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:54,959
response in the same way that the

481
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,399
department of homeland security was put

482
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:58,880
together after 9 11 as a way to say

483
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:00,399
enough of this competition between the

484
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:02,959
fbi and the cia we need to come together

485
00:17:06,789 --> 00:17:04,640
and combine

486
00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:06,799
intelligence services so that we get the

487
00:17:11,029 --> 00:17:08,640
best picture we can of what's really

488
00:17:12,789 --> 00:17:11,039
going on in the world geopolitically

489
00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,799
same thing with the phenomenon right we

490
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:14,640
should be gathering all the data we can

491
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:16,640
and get the best minds on this

492
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,400
and hopefully even open it up to some

493
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,240
people in the private sector academics

494
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:22,480
and whatnot get there thinking on it too

495
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,919
um

496
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,439
so i think he's been trying to do that

497
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:27,600
while also trying to like pull along

498
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:28,960
some of the people already deeply

499
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,640
invested in this and the ufo twitter

500
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:33,039
crowd and whatnot but also trying to

501
00:17:36,630 --> 00:17:34,480
guide them down a slightly different

502
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:36,640
path a more open-ended path

503
00:17:39,510 --> 00:17:37,919
because he knows if there's more

504
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:39,520
grassroots

505
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:41,440
you know upheaval kind of like pushing

506
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:42,559
for this

507
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,799
and uprising that that also is going to

508
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,240
put pressure on congress and it will

509
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:48,320
also help normalize this topic in the

510
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,720
media and in our political circles so

511
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:52,080
he's trying to do both i sense that he's

512
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:53,840
trying to like get movement in congress

513
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:56,400
which will then behoove the intelligence

514
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,720
services to get involved and cooperate

515
00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:00,720
but also create this upswell in the

516
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,760
public

517
00:18:05,110 --> 00:18:03,600
which spills over into the media so the

518
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,120
whole thing gets more traction in the

519
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:07,760
long run right okay perfect well i'm

520
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:09,280
glad we had a chance to kind of talk

521
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:10,640
about that

522
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:12,000
because i think it is important i don't

523
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:13,679
want to spend too much time on it but i

524
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:15,440
did want to make sure we gave it some

525
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:16,480
attention

526
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:17,360
so

527
00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:19,679
the next clip that we can look at here

528
00:18:25,669 --> 00:18:22,720
is let's look at um

529
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,679
a pretty recent clip this came from

530
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,160
the artisan tony show so this was uh

531
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,640
artisan tony with alexei

532
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:32,160
and chris lato

533
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:35,039
and uh lou talks about

534
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,080
the analogy here of of copper and i

535
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:39,919
think copper smeltings let's see if we

536
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:41,120
can get that i want to share something

537
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:42,559
with you and i don't want to cut you off

538
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:43,679
but but

539
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:46,080
it's fascinating you say this because

540
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,200
i had a a really good conversation with

541
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,679
a dear friend of mine and i won't say

542
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:53,440
who but you know guys

543
00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:55,280
very much into philosophy and by the way

544
00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:56,720
very qualified

545
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,360
and he opined something and he he

546
00:19:03,669 --> 00:19:01,679
explained it to me in very late terms

547
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:03,679
which is often what i appreciate because

548
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:04,480
i'm

549
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:08,240
um

550
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:14,640
imagine you have this vat of copper pure

551
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:17,440
copper at the u.s mint and they are

552
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:18,720
they're gonna make a bunch of pennies

553
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:20,880
for the month and so they have this huge

554
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:23,600
cauldron of boiling pure copper and they

555
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:25,440
make all these little pennies and those

556
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:27,200
pennies wind up getting going into

557
00:19:33,029 --> 00:19:30,480
circulation and over time those pennies

558
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:33,039
because of the natural state of of of

559
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,600
the universe and how how how

560
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:37,360
entropy works and what not

561
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:39,520
um they start to rust they start to

562
00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:41,440
oxidize they start to

563
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:43,600
take on the patina of the environment

564
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:45,200
right and then at some point in time

565
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,200
when the pennies have outlived their

566
00:19:51,669 --> 00:19:49,200
usefulness they go back to the u.s mint

567
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:51,679
at least in theory they get melted down

568
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:54,640
the slag and the oxidation is scraped

569
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:56,880
off the top and those pennies go back to

570
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:58,640
the hot cauldron of collectiveness back

571
00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:01,039
to the one to the big to the big hot

572
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,159
pool of copper pure copper uh only to

573
00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:06,240
you know potentially go back out again

574
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:08,000
and to eventually make another penny and

575
00:20:11,190 --> 00:20:09,600
and be recycled

576
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:11,200
i found that very interesting again i

577
00:20:14,789 --> 00:20:12,720
don't necessarily subscribe to it one

578
00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:14,799
way or the other but but it reminded me

579
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:16,640
of that conversation i had with my

580
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:23,510
all right so uh

581
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:25,360
what are your thoughts on that clip uh

582
00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:28,080
taking that analogy my takeaway is that

583
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:31,520
uh the phenomenon is

584
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,280
found in copper that's made of copper uh

585
00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:37,840
and that if we collect enough pennies

586
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:40,240
and melt them down we have a pretty

587
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,520
direct line to i think what is going on

588
00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:46,240
uh with the phenomenon high strangeness

589
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:47,440
i don't know just i'm just spitballing

590
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:48,880
here but is that kind of what you were

591
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,559
thinking uh with that analogy that's

592
00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:52,400
logical reasoning and that that really

593
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:54,320
follows the principles we just talked

594
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,120
about

595
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:57,120
clearly silver is the wrong avenue to

596
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:57,840
look

597
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:00,000
cooper is the way to go

598
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:03,120
no but um all jokes aside

599
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:04,880
you know uh you had listened to more of

600
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:06,640
that clip than i had and you know we

601
00:21:09,830 --> 00:21:07,919
were talking before we went on the air

602
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:09,840
about how uh

603
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:11,200
you know he's he's referencing

604
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:13,360
consciousness you know and how

605
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:14,080
we

606
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,360
and i've thought a lot about this i've

607
00:21:18,549 --> 00:21:17,200
studied this for a long time this notion

608
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,559
that you know

609
00:21:23,510 --> 00:21:20,480
what is consciousness who are we you

610
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:23,520
know and and what begins and ends that

611
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,840
process you know is it is it just

612
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:27,120
when the body

613
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,559
you know dies

614
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:31,200
that consciousness snuffs out like some

615
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,120
in the reductionistic mainstream would

616
00:21:35,909 --> 00:21:34,640
want us to believe even though there's

617
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:35,919
lots of evidence as we keep talking

618
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,600
about on this show but that's not the

619
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:39,600
case at all

620
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,720
but

621
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:42,000
what's interesting there is that you

622
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:43,760
know number one he's talking about this

623
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:44,960
notion that

624
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:47,440
an individual lifetime an iteration

625
00:21:52,789 --> 00:21:50,799
right may be um one of those pennies

626
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,799
but the the core of it what really is

627
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,720
the substance of the penny is the copper

628
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:57,120
itself right that's the source of it and

629
00:22:02,549 --> 00:21:59,520
that is undying that you can scrape off

630
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:02,559
the you know the sludge and whatnot the

631
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:05,360
rusting the dirt that you know builds up

632
00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:06,480
over time

633
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,200
but that core consciousness can be

634
00:22:13,029 --> 00:22:12,240
put back into the sort of central um you

635
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:13,039
know

636
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:15,200
cauldron and reused over and over again

637
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:17,440
and you can smelt new pennies you know

638
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:19,200
numerous generations and in fact you

639
00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:20,559
know there's really no limit to it kind

640
00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:21,760
of thing

641
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,440
so when i hear that i think him talking

642
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:25,200
about i hear him talk about us you know

643
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,960
that we as individuals

644
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:28,640
and you know lots of people have talked

645
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:29,760
about

646
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,720
um

647
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:32,799
you know the idea of past lives the

648
00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:34,000
sense that

649
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:35,360
although it's rare some people do

650
00:22:39,110 --> 00:22:37,280
actually remember previous iterations

651
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:39,120
you know but they were a different penny

652
00:22:43,190 --> 00:22:41,200
you know from

653
00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:43,200
somewhere else

654
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:45,280
but also that you know

655
00:22:48,870 --> 00:22:46,960
i also take from that and you know that

656
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,880
i've talked about this on the show that

657
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:50,720
my sense is that there's there's kind of

658
00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:52,640
like a central repository of

659
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:54,159
consciousness from which we all are

660
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:55,440
apart

661
00:22:59,510 --> 00:22:57,919
including whatever alien beings uh you

662
00:23:01,830 --> 00:22:59,520
know are in the picture

663
00:23:04,470 --> 00:23:01,840
et's interdimensionals whatever

664
00:23:06,149 --> 00:23:04,480
so that's interesting that that may be a

665
00:23:07,909 --> 00:23:06,159
path forward in terms of communication

666
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,919
and understanding that we all have this

667
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:09,679
we all have this source that we come

668
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:10,799
from

669
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:13,039
but also that um when we ask questions

670
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:14,960
about who they are who we are we should

671
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:17,039
keep in mind this much larger picture

672
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:19,120
this much larger context around

673
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,039
consciousness itself and what it is over

674
00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:23,120
time yeah

675
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:25,679
i i'm encouraged to hear

676
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,440
the use of this analogy i think it is um

677
00:23:33,909 --> 00:23:31,200
as you said it is you know pointing

678
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:33,919
toward a model of consciousness

679
00:23:36,310 --> 00:23:34,799
uh

680
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:36,320
and the fact that we're talking about

681
00:23:40,149 --> 00:23:37,919
that

682
00:23:42,070 --> 00:23:40,159
in the same you know context of talking

683
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:42,080
about ufos and

684
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:43,520
and other uh you know sort of

685
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:46,240
paranormality i mean to me that's

686
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:48,000
that's the direction we need to be going

687
00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:49,840
um and we've certainly talked about that

688
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:52,320
uh for some time i

689
00:24:06,390 --> 00:23:53,360
i

690
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,400
fundamental

691
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:09,120
and i know we've talked about this a ton

692
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,799
you know the degree to which folks will

693
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:12,400
listen to

694
00:24:17,430 --> 00:24:15,440
that kind of clip and that anecdote

695
00:24:19,990 --> 00:24:17,440
and

696
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:20,000
you know just not quite be able to

697
00:24:23,669 --> 00:24:21,679
process you know

698
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,679
what it is that he is trying to get us

699
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:24,960
to consider

700
00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:27,279
you know i don't think he is positing

701
00:24:31,269 --> 00:24:29,919
with that story that this is exactly

702
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,279
what it is

703
00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:33,200
but what he is trying to do is to get us

704
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:35,840
to think differently about the way that

705
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:38,559
we understand our reality the way that

706
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,080
we understand our individuality

707
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:44,080
and and how connected we are how

708
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:45,840
disconnected we are what really does

709
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:47,760
distinguish

710
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:50,400
me from you and and and maybe even

711
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:52,159
beyond that you know

712
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:54,640
me not only me from you but me from

713
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,120
everything else that that that is in my

714
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:59,279
experience

715
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:02,159
and so but you know i i

716
00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:03,760
i think part of our

717
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:05,200
you know kind of uh

718
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:07,679
task if you will is to get folks in a

719
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:10,240
place where

720
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:11,520
they're more comfortable with this

721
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:13,279
concept whether

722
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:15,840
not again not it's specifically

723
00:25:18,870 --> 00:25:17,200
um but

724
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:18,880
because i think it while it is a good

725
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:21,200
analogy in some ways it may not be great

726
00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:22,240
in others

727
00:25:25,590 --> 00:25:23,840
but just getting comfortable with

728
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,600
thinking about this topic from the

729
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:27,520
standpoint of

730
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:30,880
the interconnectedness of it all that

731
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:32,240
that we tend to

732
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,559
really otherwise the phenomenon to the

733
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:36,400
nth degree literally calling it the

734
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,279
others

735
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,000
and i think that is a good term to use

736
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,240
at the same time there is a there is

737
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,720
this sense in which it's not necessarily

738
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:47,039
other that we really are all part of the

739
00:25:50,630 --> 00:25:48,480
same thing

740
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:50,640
and the way that it manifests or

741
00:25:56,870 --> 00:25:53,919
expresses itself in reality

742
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:56,880
is just what to us makes it seem

743
00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:58,880
different and distinct

744
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:01,360
yeah absolutely and like you say again

745
00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,720
we want to encourage people it's not

746
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:04,559
about

747
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:07,600
uh running you know to the town store

748
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:09,360
with with this uh this particular

749
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:10,799
analogy

750
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,960
and he even says he said you know i this

751
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:14,400
what you said made me think about this

752
00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:16,240
and it's just a general analogy again

753
00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:18,720
thinking outside the box and

754
00:26:22,710 --> 00:26:20,400
when you think about

755
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:22,720
any kind of scientific experiment

756
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:24,080
the whole notion of what makes it

757
00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:26,240
powerful is that you can control for all

758
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,400
other variables so whatever variable you

759
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:30,880
leave kind of in play and adjust up and

760
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:32,240
down

761
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:35,039
gives you a sense of how much

762
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:37,039
impact that has on the result which then

763
00:26:40,149 --> 00:26:38,720
allows you to model the way nature

764
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,159
behaves which allows you to develop

765
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:42,159
technologies etc

766
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:44,240
but again the premise there is that you

767
00:26:47,590 --> 00:26:46,240
can control for all other variables and

768
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:47,600
then only when you know there's just

769
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:49,840
this one in play can you say this one is

770
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:52,480
responsible for this right there's

771
00:26:55,140 --> 00:26:53,919
maybe not just correlation but maybe

772
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:55,150
even causation here

773
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:56,559
[Music]

774
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,799
so what i hear him saying is before we

775
00:27:03,190 --> 00:27:00,960
get to answers we have to know what

776
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,200
variables are in play you know like is

777
00:27:07,909 --> 00:27:05,440
there just me this iteration and then

778
00:27:09,669 --> 00:27:07,919
there's them other iteration or is it

779
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,679
more complex than that you know just as

780
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,520
we began talking about

781
00:27:16,870 --> 00:27:13,919
how our brain function can be impacted

782
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:16,880
by the bacteria in our gut you know like

783
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:18,960
most people when they think about

784
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:21,840
me who i am what counts as me they don't

785
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:24,000
think about bacteria in their gut right

786
00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:24,880
and yet

787
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:26,720
when it becomes a sort of seamless

788
00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:27,760
process

789
00:27:31,190 --> 00:27:29,200
we don't know any better you know like

790
00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:31,200
there's i've read a lot of research

791
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:32,480
around

792
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:34,399
the two hemispheres of the brain and in

793
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:35,919
many ways they're they're like two

794
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:37,520
different personalities right and

795
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,320
somehow we harmonize it in a way that we

796
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:41,760
experience one

797
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:43,679
kind of reality and one experience of me

798
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,279
but you can do something as simple as

799
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:47,760
there's been some work done even on

800
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:49,520
people who had various you know

801
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:51,200
post-traumatic stress syndrome and

802
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:52,799
whatnot

803
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:54,159
for instance there's this one guy who

804
00:27:58,310 --> 00:27:55,919
had been in vietnam and sometimes he

805
00:27:59,909 --> 00:27:58,320
would have ptsd in certain situations

806
00:28:02,230 --> 00:27:59,919
because one part of him would experience

807
00:28:04,149 --> 00:28:02,240
the trauma from vietnam and so at one

808
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:04,159
point he was sitting in the in the uh

809
00:28:07,590 --> 00:28:05,760
the doctor's office and there was some

810
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:07,600
sort of like bamboo kind of you know

811
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,480
fake

812
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,480
stuff uh you know kind of in the corner

813
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,240
kind of thing yeah and what it would do

814
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:14,080
is they would cover one eye

815
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:15,919
which would trigger the other opposite

816
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,200
hemisphere of the brain to sort of

817
00:28:20,470 --> 00:28:18,720
become active

818
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:20,480
and that that hemisphere had no problems

819
00:28:23,350 --> 00:28:21,600
like i'm sitting in an office that's

820
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,360
like a calm looking bamboo tree it's not

821
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:25,440
even real right then they took that

822
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,200
blindfold off and covered the other eye

823
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:29,200
suddenly panic came in because he saw

824
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:30,559
vietnam all over again he thought he was

825
00:28:33,269 --> 00:28:32,480
going to be shelled right or shot

826
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:33,279
and

827
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,240
to get the two hemispheres of the brain

828
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,240
to begin to communicate and talk to each

829
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:40,320
other and therefore have the more

830
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:43,039
rational side begin to sort of like help

831
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:45,279
the more intuitive child-like side of

832
00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,679
the brain to not respond instinctively

833
00:28:50,470 --> 00:28:49,360
that way that it had so it's a kind of

834
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,480
therapy

835
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:52,559
but that goes to show how much

836
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,399
whether it's gut bacteria or it's the

837
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:56,320
two hemispheres of the brain what makes

838
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,480
us us is more complicated than we

839
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:00,240
imagine and just because we experience

840
00:29:05,110 --> 00:29:03,360
it as one you know consistent experience

841
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:05,120
of me doesn't mean there aren't multiple

842
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:06,799
inputs into that

843
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:09,440
and that's just for each of us right

844
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,960
and then you think about how that may be

845
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,480
going on with the others maybe they are

846
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,559
somehow interacting with us you've got

847
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,960
carl jung who claims that maybe you know

848
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:18,240
the collective unconscious and the

849
00:29:22,230 --> 00:29:19,760
personal unconscious

850
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:22,240
is partly in play here uh it's

851
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,520
we're talking about really thinking

852
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:25,679
outside the box here and that's what i

853
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:27,919
sort of again hear lou pointing towards

854
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,399
and i i wholeheartedly agree yeah

855
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:32,880
and then two i think uh there's this

856
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:35,840
notion of time or how time

857
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:38,880
uh plays into that sense of of self that

858
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:41,440
understanding of self uh you know in the

859
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:43,440
story that he's using

860
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,640
there is a

861
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:46,640
a progression of events you know from

862
00:29:51,510 --> 00:29:49,360
the the pool of copper to the

863
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:51,520
uh the separation the creation of the

864
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:53,279
individual pennies and

865
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:55,600
these are moments in time that kind of

866
00:30:00,789 --> 00:29:57,919
proceed you know one to the other and it

867
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,799
is that really time that element of time

868
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,120
that allows us to

869
00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:05,440
formulate and and have a persistent

870
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:06,960
notion of

871
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:10,240
self in a way that i think we might not

872
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,679
have otherwise you know so it's

873
00:30:15,190 --> 00:30:13,039
interesting that

874
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:15,200
you know for me at least to think of it

875
00:30:18,389 --> 00:30:16,240
from

876
00:30:20,710 --> 00:30:18,399
the standpoint of what would

877
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:20,720
what would a notion of me be

878
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:23,440
if i didn't have this

879
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,240
flow of time that i have experienced

880
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:28,480
um you know if i were to step back and

881
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:31,120
look at myself from a whole

882
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,279
you know sort of nathan from the first

883
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,120
moment of nathan to the last moment of

884
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:37,919
nathan what what person might emerge

885
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:39,120
from that

886
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:41,440
uh perspective or what if i flipped it

887
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,679
what if i you know from the from the end

888
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:45,520
point to the to the beginning you know

889
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,000
and kind of a benjamin button situation

890
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:50,399
you know how does that define who i am

891
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,880
uh so you know time plays a pretty

892
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,520
fundamental role in understanding and he

893
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:57,600
talks about that quite a bit too

894
00:31:02,830 --> 00:31:00,080
in in in many different places uh the

895
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:02,840
way in which we human beings experience

896
00:31:08,070 --> 00:31:05,679
time is certainly not the way that you

897
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:08,080
know every sort of entity that we know

898
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:10,559
of experiences time from the smallest of

899
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:13,200
creatures to to larger creatures that

900
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:15,760
live longer than we do on average uh so

901
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:19,600
their notions of uh of normal or of

902
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:22,320
a life well lived or totally you know

903
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:23,679
colored by

904
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,760
that that period of time that they

905
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:27,120
experience

906
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:28,559
yeah that's a great point and i was

907
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:30,159
thinking about a couple things when you

908
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:31,440
mentioned that

909
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:33,039
number one a couple times now we've

910
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,880
mentioned that show a rival that movie

911
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,000
on here

912
00:31:39,190 --> 00:31:37,840
and what's fascinating about that movie

913
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:39,200
is um

914
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:40,559
spoiler alert here people who haven't

915
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:41,519
seen it

916
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:43,440
but

917
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:44,720
we see

918
00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:46,159
normal progression of time in the movie

919
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,360
right or what we think is the normal

920
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:49,440
progression of time

921
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:51,039
and she's having what we think are these

922
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:52,799
memories

923
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:55,600
about this daughter that she had

924
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,240
and in the course of the movie

925
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,200
she ends up interacting with these alien

926
00:32:05,029 --> 00:32:02,960
beings and part of her job is to try and

927
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,039
figure out their language

928
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:07,279
but part of figuring out their language

929
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:09,120
comes down to experiencing how they

930
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:10,640
think how they experience reality and

931
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:13,360
she begins to realize it's different

932
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:15,679
and even when i was studying psychology

933
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:17,200
psycholinguistics was one of my favorite

934
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,640
courses because

935
00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:20,640
it's about the interaction between

936
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:22,640
thinking producing language and then

937
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:24,399
language producing thinking very much

938
00:32:27,590 --> 00:32:25,919
being a kind of a circular kind of

939
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,600
arrangement right

940
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:30,480
and uh so what she experiences as she

941
00:32:34,230 --> 00:32:32,000
interacts with these other beings these

942
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:34,240
aliens is that she

943
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:36,080
begins to experience time differently

944
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,279
partly because she's exposed to their

945
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,039
language their way of thinking

946
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,960
and so towards the end of the movie we

947
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,480
find out actually she's having what you

948
00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:44,480
might call memories of the future she's

949
00:32:48,630 --> 00:32:47,279
having flash forwards

950
00:32:50,710 --> 00:32:48,640
and um

951
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,720
so that that's fascinating in itself uh

952
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,159
just to think differently because like

953
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,679
you say um

954
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,279
who we are our sense of self is so

955
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:57,360
connected to time that that you know

956
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,799
what you had for dinner before you came

957
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,559
here and that gives you a consistent

958
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:02,320
sense of self

959
00:33:05,430 --> 00:33:04,080
you know i think again of some of my my

960
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:05,440
buddhist training

961
00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,360
and one of the things they really try to

962
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,200
get to do there is recognize how there

963
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,840
is no consistent self you know that to

964
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,440
some degree that's an illusion and again

965
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:14,880
it's just it's this continuation of

966
00:33:17,430 --> 00:33:16,399
events over time that we can string

967
00:33:19,509 --> 00:33:17,440
together

968
00:33:20,710 --> 00:33:19,519
that make us think that it's one being

969
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,720
right

970
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,399
but really

971
00:33:26,310 --> 00:33:24,480
we've lived enough life to look back and

972
00:33:28,470 --> 00:33:26,320
realize ways we've really changed we've

973
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:28,480
talked about on this show how

974
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:30,399
even the world views we we hold the very

975
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,039
way we see reality has changed several

976
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,679
times over the course of our lives

977
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:37,519
and so when you really ask yourself what

978
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:39,519
is permanent you know what what is it

979
00:33:44,230 --> 00:33:42,480
about me today or nathan today that is

980
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:44,240
consistently the same or what's the core

981
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:46,480
what's the copper there yeah right with

982
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:49,279
who nathan was 10 or 15 20 years ago

983
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,919
and uh it's it's a complex question

984
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,200
again i think to some degree it's

985
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:55,440
illusory that we're one being many ways

986
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,640
we're not there's many ways that i'm

987
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,640
very different than i used to be i i

988
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:00,159
remember talking to friends i hadn't

989
00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:01,840
talked to in a long long time and they

990
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:03,840
they were like surprised how different i

991
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:05,840
was of course i don't really remember

992
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,760
what it was like 20 years ago but they

993
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:09,599
do right right um

994
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:11,599
so it just goes to show yeah again we're

995
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:13,760
widening the parameters trying to think

996
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:16,079
outside the box again for sure

997
00:34:19,589 --> 00:34:17,359
all right let's take a look at our next

998
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,599
clip here um

999
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:21,679
so

1000
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,440
i'm going to take a look at this clip

1001
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:25,679
from the theories of everything with uh

1002
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,560
kurt

1003
00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:28,480
jaimungle

1004
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:29,839
and in this clip

1005
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,320
lou is talking about dna as a type of

1006
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,399
technology a thousand years ago say yes

1007
00:34:37,710 --> 00:34:36,000
that was absolutely manipulated by an

1008
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:37,720
intelligent life form well

1009
00:34:41,750 --> 00:34:39,839
deoxyribonucleic acid

1010
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,760
uh may be one way to do it you can put

1011
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:43,520
coding and sequencing in there that will

1012
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:45,280
perpetuate over time and time in this

1013
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:46,879
you'll have some degradation over

1014
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:49,119
generations but but in essence you could

1015
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:51,599
do something that way and basically it's

1016
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:53,839
a biological marker right

1017
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:55,919
so we have to be careful when we say we

1018
00:34:59,750 --> 00:34:57,839
look for for evidence because evidence

1019
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,760
isn't just necessarily

1020
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:01,760
a spearhead found in the bighorn

1021
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:04,079
mountains from 11 000 years ago it's not

1022
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:05,680
necessarily a pyramid sitting in the

1023
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:07,280
middle of the desert

1024
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:09,040
it could be far more sophisticated than

1025
00:35:12,950 --> 00:35:10,720
that you said put it in orbit right well

1026
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:12,960
what if if we put that rather than an

1027
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,359
orbit we put into the human body

1028
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:17,119
you know so

1029
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:19,280
anyways that's that's that's so i know

1030
00:35:23,589 --> 00:35:20,800
it's a very long-winded way to answer

1031
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:23,599
that question yeah

1032
00:35:28,829 --> 00:35:25,680
all right so that's a great clip i

1033
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:28,839
really enjoy uh him talking about uh

1034
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:31,839
dna particularly in the light of the

1035
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,960
context of being a kind of technology

1036
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:36,400
um

1037
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:37,599
so

1038
00:35:41,030 --> 00:35:39,119
you know again this is a good example

1039
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,040
right we we have the community kind of

1040
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:43,599
listening to that and thinking okay

1041
00:35:47,030 --> 00:35:44,880
dna

1042
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:47,040
we can decode it or

1043
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:49,359
dna is a kind of technology

1044
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:50,880
um that

1045
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:53,040
if we just understood it better it would

1046
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:54,560
tell us that

1047
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:55,920
you know insert

1048
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:58,720
answer to mystery x

1049
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:00,720
and you know again while that may

1050
00:36:05,349 --> 00:36:03,359
certainly have elements of truth

1051
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:05,359
i'm not necessarily sure that's exactly

1052
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:07,200
what he's going for

1053
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:10,480
with that particular example

1054
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:12,320
again he's getting us to try to think

1055
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:14,160
about ways in which

1056
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:15,040
uh

1057
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:17,119
you know elements that are in our

1058
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:20,320
environment uh that uh you know maybe

1059
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:23,280
all maybe too familiar to us

1060
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:25,119
uh can be looked at from a different

1061
00:36:27,910 --> 00:36:26,960
perspective

1062
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:27,920
and

1063
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:30,160
be connected in some way some form or

1064
00:36:35,349 --> 00:36:33,200
fashion to what the phenomena may

1065
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,359
actually represent

1066
00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,599
again i don't think this is necessarily

1067
00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:39,839
him saying you know we're all alien

1068
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:41,359
hybrids

1069
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:42,240
but

1070
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:45,119
it is you know his attempt at getting us

1071
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:47,200
to look at something as simple as

1072
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:49,920
biology as a uh

1073
00:36:52,829 --> 00:36:51,760
you know as something that you know

1074
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:52,839
maybe can

1075
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:55,520
be imbued with a little bit more

1076
00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:57,760
intrigue than something that is purely

1077
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:00,000
just a part of uh

1078
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,110
you know human evolution on the earth

1079
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:05,040
[Music]

1080
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,720
yeah that's a fascinating clip um

1081
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,040
i hear several things that he's uh

1082
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:13,119
intonating in that uh in that little

1083
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:14,000
clip

1084
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,079
number one is you know where do we look

1085
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,079
for technology again what are your

1086
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,640
assumptions you know do we we look

1087
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:22,640
like seti is trying to do a fairly

1088
00:37:27,190 --> 00:37:25,920
narrow range of evidence of you know

1089
00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:27,200
alien life

1090
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,640
we talked about this before how in some

1091
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,119
ways it's almost humorous that

1092
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:33,280
it was designed to sort of capture radio

1093
00:37:37,670 --> 00:37:35,520
technology radio emissions because that

1094
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,680
was our big thing cutting edge 60s and

1095
00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:39,200
70s right how much that's changed

1096
00:37:42,390 --> 00:37:40,960
already but you know because these

1097
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:42,400
things are costly and there's different

1098
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:44,480
uh groups involved with different

1099
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,960
agendas it's sometimes slow to to change

1100
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:48,240
the paradigm

1101
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:49,359
and what he's talking about here and

1102
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:50,960
this has become more of a recent thing

1103
00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:53,119
ever since we you know coded the genome

1104
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,400
and everything

1105
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:56,880
is that dna itself would be a great

1106
00:38:00,310 --> 00:37:58,720
mechanism to

1107
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,320
bring about change

1108
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,400
and it could serve a double purpose one

1109
00:38:07,109 --> 00:38:05,280
you could um evolve a species

1110
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,119
through dna that sort of comes online

1111
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:09,440
over time you know engineering kind of

1112
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,320
thing

1113
00:38:14,630 --> 00:38:12,320
but on top of that that the message in

1114
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:14,640
the bottle could be that

1115
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,240
eventually a species becomes to

1116
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,400
understand itself well enough

1117
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,560
that it studies its own genome and

1118
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,880
begins to see signs puzzle pieces

1119
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:24,000
pointing back to some sort of

1120
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:25,520
engineering in the past almost like a

1121
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:27,440
calling card saying when you figure this

1122
00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:29,599
out call home yeah yeah

1123
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:32,160
so yeah it's a fascinating clip for sure

1124
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:35,040
that's interesting yeah and

1125
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:36,000
and

1126
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:37,440
you know we've touched on that theme

1127
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:40,800
before as well there's this

1128
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:44,240
there's this awakening component

1129
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:46,800
perhaps that is connected to what's

1130
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,040
happening here that

1131
00:38:56,069 --> 00:38:52,079
as our own understanding of of our

1132
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,079
reality of our history of our physiology

1133
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:59,040
of our consciousness is that

1134
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,280
you know changes over time

1135
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:03,280
i'm hesitant to say you know sort of

1136
00:39:07,910 --> 00:39:05,920
grows and that has a sort of strong

1137
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,920
overtone of being

1138
00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:09,920
you know progressively better

1139
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,320
uh so in some ways we some would argue

1140
00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:14,400
you know we may not have gotten better

1141
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:18,160
in some areas but nevertheless the

1142
00:39:21,430 --> 00:39:20,160
sort of scope or sphere of our

1143
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:21,440
understanding

1144
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:23,599
seems to be expanding

1145
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:25,599
and there is uh

1146
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,320
this notion at least that as that circle

1147
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:30,320
expands eventually it's going to bump up

1148
00:39:34,790 --> 00:39:32,240
into something something else that may

1149
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,800
be waiting for us to get to that

1150
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:36,800
point

1151
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:37,839
and

1152
00:39:40,829 --> 00:39:39,760
you know i really like that idea that

1153
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:40,839
that to

1154
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:44,800
me just intuitively feels very like uh

1155
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:47,280
matured it mirrors what we experience in

1156
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:49,200
our own lives you know that is our own

1157
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:50,640
understanding

1158
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:53,119
of uh of who we are of human

1159
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:55,760
relationships of uh

1160
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:57,839
the way the world works you know as that

1161
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:00,800
changes over time you know we gain

1162
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:03,760
wisdom we are in a position to better

1163
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:05,680
understand what's happening

1164
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:08,720
uh to uh more appropriately interact

1165
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:10,000
with

1166
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:12,800
the world that we find ourselves in and

1167
00:40:16,790 --> 00:40:14,720
hopefully better

1168
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:16,800
treat one another and and take care of

1169
00:40:20,470 --> 00:40:18,400
our own selves you know these are things

1170
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:20,480
that just come with

1171
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:23,599
lessons learned in life and it wouldn't

1172
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:26,480
surprise me if whatever else is out

1173
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,440
there

1174
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:30,240
uh you know is it is very much waiting

1175
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:32,560
for us to you know kind of take those

1176
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:34,160
steps before

1177
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:38,160
uh we can enter into a more

1178
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:39,920
a deeper you know sort of fuller

1179
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:42,640
understanding of of what's really going

1180
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,680
on

1181
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:45,680
out there

1182
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,069
numerous things i want to say here

1183
00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,560
number one is again coming down to who

1184
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,400
we are right and

1185
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:56,640
uh i'll give you an example of how i i

1186
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:58,079
keep having that

1187
00:41:03,430 --> 00:40:59,760
sphere of

1188
00:41:05,270 --> 00:41:03,440
definition expand for myself anyway

1189
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:05,280
one is you know something like you sort

1190
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,960
of hinted at there with like the cycles

1191
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:08,560
of life you know and

1192
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:09,599
um

1193
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:12,079
we both have kids and you know when you

1194
00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:13,920
get when i i'm now at the age where my

1195
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:15,440
dad was when i was a teenager kind of

1196
00:41:17,910 --> 00:41:16,160
thing

1197
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:17,920
and so

1198
00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:19,440
i suddenly see

1199
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:21,520
him differently right i i had these

1200
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:23,040
notions of what it was like to be his

1201
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,720
age when i was a teenager right and now

1202
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,160
i'm at that age

1203
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:28,480
and i have teenagers right and it's like

1204
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:29,599
uh

1205
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:31,599
recognizing wow

1206
00:41:37,670 --> 00:41:34,880
was my perspective of my dad wrong no it

1207
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,680
was just incomplete and it was shaped by

1208
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:40,000
a particular perspective and a certain

1209
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:41,920
station of life right

1210
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:44,240
and how different it is now like vastly

1211
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:46,000
different right that's interesting in

1212
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:48,400
itself yeah um

1213
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:50,720
but then i also think back to you know i

1214
00:41:54,790 --> 00:41:53,200
did the ancestry.com thing you know 10

1215
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,800
years ago or something when you get

1216
00:41:57,750 --> 00:41:56,720
those first few hits right where like oh

1217
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:57,760
it turns out you have like a second

1218
00:42:01,990 --> 00:42:00,240
cousin over in australia and turns out

1219
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:02,000
that you know you have relatives who

1220
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:02,880
like

1221
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:04,400
were in north carolina right when the

1222
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:05,920
first settlers came right stuff like

1223
00:42:10,309 --> 00:42:07,599
that you know you're like yeah yeah

1224
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:10,319
right uh yay for my team kind of thing

1225
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:12,400
and then um

1226
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:14,560
then you uh

1227
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:16,319
it you get more and more hits right and

1228
00:42:20,550 --> 00:42:18,480
you have like second third fourth fifth

1229
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,560
six cousins right and next thing you

1230
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:22,800
know and it's it's you have relatives

1231
00:42:26,230 --> 00:42:24,560
everywhere on the earth right pretty

1232
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:26,240
much everywhere i mean

1233
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:27,760
some populations i don't have relatives

1234
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:30,640
from but it's in a lot of places right

1235
00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:32,560
and

1236
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:34,880
what that does over time is number one i

1237
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:36,560
would go oh cool so i have some

1238
00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:38,880
relatives in germany ancestors and the

1239
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:41,119
uk and australia and these different

1240
00:42:43,990 --> 00:42:42,880
places right but then you start

1241
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:44,000
realizing it goes back to the point

1242
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:45,280
where there was before there was really

1243
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,640
nation states right and you have these

1244
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:48,160
sort of like territories these general

1245
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:50,160
areas right when then you go oh it's

1246
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,839
what is the definition of a nation state

1247
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:53,200
what does it mean to be german or

1248
00:42:56,950 --> 00:42:55,200
american or whatever you know it's like

1249
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:56,960
well that's relatively recent right so

1250
00:43:00,470 --> 00:42:59,119
that also is a shifting definition over

1251
00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:00,480
time

1252
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:03,040
and so i began to recognize

1253
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,960
and then you think about how we all

1254
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:07,280
they say you know came from one tribe in

1255
00:43:11,109 --> 00:43:08,960
northern africa at some point we can all

1256
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,119
trace back our history so in other words

1257
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,440
if my ancestry.com kept hitting i'd end

1258
00:43:17,670 --> 00:43:15,440
up with like you know several billion

1259
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:17,680
connections right yeah so that changes

1260
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:19,040
your sense of who you are in your

1261
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:20,880
background um

1262
00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:22,640
yeah it's just it keeps widening the

1263
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,800
perspective and that that makes me think

1264
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:27,119
about that when i listen to this club

1265
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:28,640
i love that i want to come back to that

1266
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:30,480
because uh definitely some good thoughts

1267
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,240
there so let's take a look at uh or

1268
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:34,480
listen to our next clip here

1269
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,520
um

1270
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:37,200
let's go with

1271
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:38,079
uh

1272
00:43:43,109 --> 00:43:40,720
one that was pretty recent as well um

1273
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:43,119
and this is one that i think will enjoy

1274
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:45,040
uh kind of unpacking a little bit this

1275
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:48,079
is uh shawn cahill

1276
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:50,319
talking a little bit about dreaming on

1277
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:52,720
the uh generation zed

1278
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:58,309
angle where the hell was i last night

1279
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:02,790
where was i

1280
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:06,720
last night how come when i go back

1281
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:08,240
tonight the stuff that i built last

1282
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,240
night isn't still there

1283
00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:11,920
how come i don't walk in like i do at

1284
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,760
work every morning and see my coffee cup

1285
00:44:17,990 --> 00:44:16,000
in my dreams where i left it and see my

1286
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:18,000
chair the way that it was and see my

1287
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:20,720
keyboard where it was on the desk

1288
00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:22,880
and yet when i'm here

1289
00:44:26,230 --> 00:44:24,319
if i put that coffee cup out in the

1290
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:26,240
field it's going to be there 75 years

1291
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:27,839
from now if nobody messes with it and if

1292
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:29,760
the environment didn't change based on

1293
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:32,720
all those movements we're talking about

1294
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:34,480
i wish more people would sit down and

1295
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,560
actually ask that question because most

1296
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,240
people wake up in the morning and say i

1297
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,720
was just asleep and if there was any

1298
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:42,720
aberration to that experience it was

1299
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:44,319
just a dream

1300
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,400
i'm not saying it was anything else

1301
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:48,560
specifically i'm saying how come you

1302
00:44:52,309 --> 00:44:51,040
don't know and you just accepted it

1303
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:52,319
you know what i mean like like most of

1304
00:44:56,550 --> 00:44:54,400
us we you don't just walk out and

1305
00:44:58,069 --> 00:44:56,560
someone says why is my face wet and then

1306
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,079
someone goes it's the weather and you're

1307
00:45:01,430 --> 00:45:00,160
like oh yeah it's weather no you learned

1308
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:01,440
that it's rain you learned the

1309
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:03,599
difference between rain and snow and

1310
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:06,000
sleet and you know you have descriptors

1311
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:07,760
for these things we just didn't stop

1312
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:10,160
short at weather so why do we stop short

1313
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:15,910
all right so i love that one uh

1314
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:19,359
definitely uh thought provoking

1315
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,560
and

1316
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:22,640
certainly right up kind of the alley

1317
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:25,280
that uh you know we

1318
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:27,920
like to occupy here on liminal frames

1319
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:31,040
uh so yeah we've talked about this a lot

1320
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:34,079
you know the nature of our dreams

1321
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:36,480
uh the correspondence between what

1322
00:45:40,230 --> 00:45:37,920
happens in

1323
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:40,240
our dream states and our waking states

1324
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:41,599
the fact that we even have this

1325
00:45:45,430 --> 00:45:43,359
delineation

1326
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:45,440
uh in our experience you know that we

1327
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:47,119
have categorized

1328
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:49,920
dream experience as less

1329
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:51,119
real

1330
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:54,319
uh than waking experience we have this

1331
00:46:00,150 --> 00:45:58,160
a pretty clear marker there i find that

1332
00:46:01,910 --> 00:46:00,160
you know very interesting uh just

1333
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:01,920
because you know we're in a sleep

1334
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:04,880
modality you know that that uh all the

1335
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:07,440
things that happen in our awareness and

1336
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:10,079
sleep time uh we've just lumped into

1337
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:13,280
this imagination you know sort of space

1338
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:15,200
yet everything that happens in waking

1339
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,319
time is is not imaginatory it is is

1340
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:20,720
happening and it is really real

1341
00:46:27,510 --> 00:46:23,200
uh never mind the fact that

1342
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:27,520
both experiences are taking place in

1343
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:29,599
our our thoughts you know in in our

1344
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:30,640
minds

1345
00:46:35,829 --> 00:46:34,000
and so uh you know it's funny how you

1346
00:46:38,710 --> 00:46:35,839
talked about earlier

1347
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:38,720
they they use the way we use language

1348
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:41,599
influences the way in which we think uh

1349
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,839
and vice versa

1350
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:45,599
i think this is a good example of that

1351
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:48,160
uh because we have created

1352
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:49,920
uh you know sort of these kind of

1353
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,480
distinctions and categories and and uh

1354
00:46:57,109 --> 00:46:54,960
we decided to make them

1355
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:57,119
different

1356
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:58,240
we

1357
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,760
you know fall under this trap of

1358
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:01,680
thinking them of them as

1359
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:05,040
something that is you know completely uh

1360
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:07,920
sort of separate apart from each other

1361
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:09,760
i'm gonna get some water while you uh

1362
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,599
take a stab right

1363
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:13,280
we both experience a bit of allergies

1364
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:17,359
with the pollen out here um yeah it's uh

1365
00:47:20,069 --> 00:47:18,960
this one i really like this clip because

1366
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:20,079
i i

1367
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:21,440
have spent a lot of time thinking about

1368
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,960
this and a lot of time investigating

1369
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:24,480
this personally

1370
00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:27,040
um all altered states of consciousness

1371
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:28,079
right

1372
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:29,280
and i'll let people use their

1373
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:30,720
imaginations to think about how i might

1374
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:32,400
have experienced different states of

1375
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,680
consciousness

1376
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:35,200
but um

1377
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:36,640
you know even take something like lucid

1378
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:39,040
dreaming which you can actually practice

1379
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:42,400
train and develop as a skill right and

1380
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:43,280
so

1381
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:47,760
which helps to increase the likelihood

1382
00:47:50,710 --> 00:47:48,800
especially if you combine it with

1383
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,720
certain behaviors like

1384
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:52,400
waking yourself up but it just before

1385
00:47:56,309 --> 00:47:54,480
rem sleep and meditating on what you

1386
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:56,319
kind of want to experience

1387
00:48:02,790 --> 00:47:59,760
um then that along with this what this

1388
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:02,800
does to your brain state the glantu mean

1389
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:04,000
increases the likelihood that you have

1390
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,359
very vivid dreams and again if you

1391
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,960
prepare yourself and you set these kind

1392
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:08,160
of mnemonics

1393
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:09,440
you can

1394
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:11,280
trigger certain awakening experiences

1395
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:13,040
within the dream right even as we're

1396
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:14,319
using these terms it's kind of funny

1397
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,640
right awakening in a dream yes right we

1398
00:48:19,990 --> 00:48:18,160
think about inception or something

1399
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:20,000
multiple levels

1400
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:22,400
but i've had experiences where i've

1401
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:24,640
woken up in a dream

1402
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:26,960
and what's crazy about it is all i'll

1403
00:48:31,430 --> 00:48:28,880
know people in the dream that feel

1404
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,440
completely familiar to me in that state

1405
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:33,520
and yet when i wake back up into the

1406
00:48:36,710 --> 00:48:35,040
next level up

1407
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,720
i have no idea who these people were but

1408
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,000
what i'm left with is this feeling of

1409
00:48:42,069 --> 00:48:40,480
familiarity but no direct connection to

1410
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:42,079
who they are right which is very very

1411
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,280
interesting

1412
00:48:46,230 --> 00:48:45,119
and and in the middle of these lucid

1413
00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:46,240
dreams i know i've told you about this

1414
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:48,480
before i've done things like

1415
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,839
seeing the red brick of a school

1416
00:48:53,349 --> 00:48:51,599
building and i go up and i rub the palm

1417
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:53,359
of my hand against it until it tears the

1418
00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:55,040
skin to see if it feels like pain and it

1419
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:56,000
does

1420
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:58,319
i bend down and i look microscopically

1421
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:00,160
at a blade of grass and smell it and it

1422
00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:03,200
feels and smells completely real

1423
00:49:06,790 --> 00:49:05,200
and in that moment the granularity of

1424
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,800
the experience told me

1425
00:49:11,109 --> 00:49:08,559
there's no way i can tell this apart

1426
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:11,119
from waking reality now yeah sometimes

1427
00:49:15,270 --> 00:49:12,880
the physics works different you know you

1428
00:49:17,030 --> 00:49:15,280
can fly or right gravity works

1429
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:17,040
differently or things like that

1430
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:18,160
um

1431
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:20,000
but that's kind of a rule set right but

1432
00:49:22,870 --> 00:49:21,359
but we assume

1433
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:22,880
when we're in this reality when we wait

1434
00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:24,800
back up into our waking experience that

1435
00:49:28,309 --> 00:49:26,240
this is somehow

1436
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,319
categorically different right so what i

1437
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,800
hear sean saying here is not just

1438
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,640
pay more attention to dreams

1439
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:34,800
but comparatively why are you so sure

1440
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:37,680
about what this is and you dismiss that

1441
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:38,880
and why

1442
00:49:42,549 --> 00:49:40,559
and when we think about the data again

1443
00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:42,559
from the free study

1444
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:44,960
the vast majority of people

1445
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:47,280
experience these others

1446
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:49,200
in a kind of altered state of

1447
00:49:53,910 --> 00:49:51,839
consciousness or kind of alternate realm

1448
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:53,920
and again the problem is that we run

1449
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:56,839
into is assumptions you know

1450
00:50:01,109 --> 00:49:59,040
presuppositions interpretations

1451
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:01,119
evaluations we make where people say oh

1452
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:02,880
so were they really abducted or was it

1453
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:04,720
just their consciousness

1454
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:05,920
what does that mean just their

1455
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:07,760
consciousness right in light of what we

1456
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,200
just talked about dreams and lucid

1457
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:11,520
dreams and even psychedelic experiences

1458
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:12,960
you can experience reality completely

1459
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:14,880
differently and

1460
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:16,880
and what's even more interesting is many

1461
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:18,559
people even with near-death experiences

1462
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,720
out-of-body experiences again

1463
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:22,640
lucid dreams psychedelic experiences

1464
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:23,760
they come back and they say that

1465
00:50:29,270 --> 00:50:26,720
actually feels more real than this so

1466
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:29,280
qualitatively all we have is experience

1467
00:50:34,870 --> 00:50:30,800
right

1468
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,880
all we have that's you know everything

1469
00:50:38,390 --> 00:50:36,960
else we surmise about reality and what

1470
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:38,400
it is and space time and everything is

1471
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:39,440
kind of a

1472
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:41,200
is built on top of that but without

1473
00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:42,559
conscious experience we have nothing

1474
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:44,480
that's all we know for sure we have is

1475
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:45,440
that we're conscious and we're

1476
00:50:50,150 --> 00:50:47,119
experiencing something

1477
00:50:52,309 --> 00:50:50,160
so these these all are again ways of

1478
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:52,319
thinking in a broad more broad way and

1479
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:54,240
it's a way to get us to think about the

1480
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:56,160
variables we bring to the equation and

1481
00:51:00,150 --> 00:50:58,079
not be so sure that they're as fixed as

1482
00:51:02,470 --> 00:51:00,160
we think they are yeah

1483
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,480
yeah and and you know sean's just uh i

1484
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:04,960
know he spent a lot of time

1485
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:07,200
you know thinking about this uh

1486
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:09,920
you know not only from the standpoint of

1487
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:12,480
uh the phenomenon but just in his

1488
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:14,960
seeking and understanding of of who he

1489
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,680
is

1490
00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:18,000
uh and i think that there are there are

1491
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:20,720
so many practices that we can point to

1492
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:23,040
uh that you know just like one can

1493
00:51:29,589 --> 00:51:25,839
exercise and get stronger uh you know

1494
00:51:31,510 --> 00:51:29,599
over time through repetition uh you know

1495
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:31,520
you can do the same kind of thing by

1496
00:51:35,910 --> 00:51:33,920
exploring the sort of contours of your

1497
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:35,920
thoughts and your mind and those who

1498
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:37,760
have done that you know have really come

1499
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,400
back with a lot of powerful insights

1500
00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,040
about the nature of reality

1501
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:45,359
and and we've talked about this too that

1502
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:47,520
our own physics our quantum sort of

1503
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,000
physics and mechanics is now pointing in

1504
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:51,839
a direction that is getting us to really

1505
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:53,760
take very seriously

1506
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:56,640
this notion that uh the material world

1507
00:52:01,270 --> 00:51:59,280
that that we have uh sort of long

1508
00:52:03,349 --> 00:52:01,280
thought we've understood or that really

1509
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:03,359
shapes every facet of the way in which

1510
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:04,960
we interact with

1511
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:07,200
our experiences you know that that may

1512
00:52:10,710 --> 00:52:09,359
not be what we thought it was um and

1513
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,720
there are some very profound

1514
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:12,640
implications sort of under the surface

1515
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:13,599
there

1516
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:16,319
that that science is now

1517
00:52:19,829 --> 00:52:18,400
you know really taking seriously and i

1518
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:19,839
think

1519
00:52:24,870 --> 00:52:22,720
it it it makes sense that we

1520
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:24,880
would be at a juncture now in our in our

1521
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:27,839
history and our learning where

1522
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:28,720
uh

1523
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:30,480
more and more

1524
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:33,359
uh sort of the things that we have sort

1525
00:52:39,270 --> 00:52:36,480
of lumped into this paranormal bucket

1526
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,280
uh you know sort of imaginary bucket you

1527
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:41,119
know that those things are coming back

1528
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:43,040
to the front because

1529
00:52:50,069 --> 00:52:44,240
uh

1530
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,079
they they take place with an experience

1531
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:53,440
uh and you know we all have uh either

1532
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:56,000
our own personal stories or those

1533
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:58,240
stories of people that we know

1534
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:01,280
uh people that we love who who who we

1535
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:02,720
can't explain the stories that we can't

1536
00:53:06,549 --> 00:53:05,119
explain uh and they have they are very

1537
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:06,559
real experiences

1538
00:53:10,390 --> 00:53:08,800
uh for us to say you know what that was

1539
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,400
all just uh

1540
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:12,720
you know something that you ate you know

1541
00:53:16,390 --> 00:53:14,480
or something that you drank or whatever

1542
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:16,400
i think does a disservice to those

1543
00:53:22,230 --> 00:53:19,599
people and and to the gigantic body

1544
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:22,240
of evidence that we have uh for these

1545
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:24,720
things taking place um and so unless

1546
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:26,960
there's some sort of you know completely

1547
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:30,559
bizarre uh you know kind of common

1548
00:53:34,950 --> 00:53:32,960
uh you know brain wiring across all of

1549
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:34,960
humanity over time

1550
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:37,280
that produces a similar kind of

1551
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:39,599
experience or or set of similar

1552
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,680
experiences i find that very hard to

1553
00:53:44,950 --> 00:53:43,200
believe i think that there really is

1554
00:53:47,109 --> 00:53:44,960
something that uh

1555
00:53:49,109 --> 00:53:47,119
you know that these things point to

1556
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:49,119
and uh for us to be able to understand

1557
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:50,720
them we have to go

1558
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:53,119
really through this path of of what's

1559
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:56,480
taking place in our in our minds yeah

1560
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:58,000
and it's interesting with what you said

1561
00:54:01,270 --> 00:53:59,839
there you made me think about

1562
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:01,280
i've been uh

1563
00:54:04,870 --> 00:54:02,640
really doing a deep dive into donald

1564
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:04,880
hoffman's work recently and this also

1565
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:06,400
touches on what you're mentioning with

1566
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:08,880
quantum mechanics and whatnot

1567
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,280
and in that clip shawn said the thing

1568
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:13,040
about you know the coffee cup that you

1569
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:15,839
know we assume will be there 25 years

1570
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:17,200
from now assuming someone doesn't move

1571
00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:18,319
it right right

1572
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:20,079
but actually that itself is a very

1573
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:22,400
questionable notion and donald hoffman's

1574
00:54:25,910 --> 00:54:23,599
done some great work and he's been

1575
00:54:27,829 --> 00:54:25,920
researching this for decades and that's

1576
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:27,839
a great example of where

1577
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:30,880
sometimes our intuitions are just wrong

1578
00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:33,040
and sometimes we we hold them so closely

1579
00:54:36,950 --> 00:54:35,119
we've hold them for so long and because

1580
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:36,960
we have a shared experience as being the

1581
00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:38,799
same species we don't question them and

1582
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:40,000
yet

1583
00:54:42,230 --> 00:54:41,040
he's

1584
00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:42,240
not just

1585
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:44,160
run postulations you know thought about

1586
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:45,839
things differently but he's actually you

1587
00:54:49,510 --> 00:54:47,200
know

1588
00:54:52,870 --> 00:54:49,520
plugged in mathematical theorems

1589
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:52,880
and according to his research

1590
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:55,040
the the likelihood that we actually

1591
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:56,960
experience reality as it really is

1592
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:58,960
through our perceptions is

1593
00:55:02,630 --> 00:55:01,200
pretty much precisely zero

1594
00:55:04,710 --> 00:55:02,640
that ironically

1595
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,720
while our assumption is you know

1596
00:55:08,950 --> 00:55:07,200
a small insect or a you know a

1597
00:55:11,270 --> 00:55:08,960
microorganism doesn't experience much of

1598
00:55:12,630 --> 00:55:11,280
reality we're so advanced that we must

1599
00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:12,640
you know get really close to the way

1600
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,920
things really are

1601
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,000
and yet his research shows the opposite

1602
00:55:20,870 --> 00:55:18,240
that the more complex an organism the

1603
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:20,880
more abstracted away from raw reality

1604
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:22,640
its experience is

1605
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:25,040
so it really comes down to not just that

1606
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:26,960
we get some things wrong or we interpret

1607
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:29,359
them kind of strangely or we get a close

1608
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,520
approximate approximation but actually

1609
00:55:36,309 --> 00:55:33,680
that we really don't experience or

1610
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,319
perceive objective reality at all like

1611
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:38,319
zero right like it's a zero percent

1612
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:40,000
chance basically according to this this

1613
00:55:43,990 --> 00:55:42,160
math has been run

1614
00:55:46,390 --> 00:55:44,000
rather he says that what we experience

1615
00:55:48,309 --> 00:55:46,400
is more like a desktop interface so

1616
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:48,319
because you're human and i'm human and

1617
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,839
like we just said we came from the same

1618
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,319
genetic background ultimately all of us

1619
00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:54,480
uh you know just like on your computer

1620
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:55,920
if you run the same operating system

1621
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:58,240
whether it's ios or windows we have

1622
00:56:02,789 --> 00:56:00,400
certain you know a folder right which

1623
00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:02,799
holds information right now of course

1624
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,720
that's actually not what's really going

1625
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:06,160
on in the computer we've got you know

1626
00:56:10,069 --> 00:56:08,640
binary code and zeros and ones right and

1627
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:10,079
transistors

1628
00:56:13,270 --> 00:56:12,000
but to make it simple for ourselves and

1629
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,280
for someone who are not computers

1630
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:15,359
someone who's not computer savvy we show

1631
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:17,520
them a desktop icon and we say if you

1632
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:20,000
drag that into the trash can

1633
00:56:24,230 --> 00:56:22,480
that might be gone completely right

1634
00:56:27,030 --> 00:56:24,240
of course that's not the literal truth

1635
00:56:29,190 --> 00:56:27,040
it's a convenient truth to allow us to

1636
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,200
accomplish tasks and his whole point is

1637
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:30,960
that's what evolution has done it's

1638
00:56:34,789 --> 00:56:33,359
given us desktop interface

1639
00:56:37,349 --> 00:56:34,799
with reality

1640
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:37,359
that allows us to stay alive procreate

1641
00:56:41,829 --> 00:56:39,280
you know keep the species going

1642
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,839
but just like a desktop interface is

1643
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,160
nothing like the underlying wiring

1644
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:46,559
coding of a computer in the same way

1645
00:56:51,109 --> 00:56:48,880
again not just maybe but he's saying

1646
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:51,119
it's precisely zero the chance that we

1647
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:53,119
actually experience objective reality

1648
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:55,119
which in itself broadens the horizon

1649
00:56:59,589 --> 00:56:57,760
again makes us think outside the box

1650
00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:59,599
we shouldn't be so sure at all what we

1651
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:01,040
experience in our waking reality the

1652
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:02,480
trees that around us right now the

1653
00:57:06,069 --> 00:57:04,480
soccer games going on the background

1654
00:57:08,470 --> 00:57:06,079
who's to say that's really what's going

1655
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:08,480
on or is that just the representation of

1656
00:57:12,710 --> 00:57:11,200
this corner of our desktop interface

1657
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,720
the more you look into this the more the

1658
00:57:15,670 --> 00:57:14,319
broader the questions get and from my

1659
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:15,680
point of view the more fascinating it

1660
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:16,799
becomes

1661
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:20,160
totally and this uh is a great segue to

1662
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:21,839
i think the next uh one that we're going

1663
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:23,359
to take a listen to

1664
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:25,200
um it's going to be one that we'll

1665
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:27,200
probably spend the rest of the episode

1666
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:28,400
discussing

1667
00:57:32,549 --> 00:57:30,240
because it does get at you know what is

1668
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,559
it that we really know

1669
00:57:36,230 --> 00:57:35,040
what is it that is uh really going on

1670
00:57:38,950 --> 00:57:36,240
and uh

1671
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:38,960
you know getting us to question uh sort

1672
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:41,359
of all the things that we have assumed

1673
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:44,240
to be true uh that may not be true and

1674
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,640
this is uh here i'm referring to

1675
00:57:51,589 --> 00:57:48,720
uh the classic uh

1676
00:57:52,549 --> 00:57:51,599
uh lou elizondo uh

1677
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,559
talk

1678
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:55,040
uh where he elucidates and expands on

1679
00:57:59,349 --> 00:57:57,680
what he meant by using the word somber

1680
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:59,359
so i'm going to pull this up this was uh

1681
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:00,880
on the again on the theories of

1682
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:09,109
the last time we spoke there were two

1683
00:58:12,150 --> 00:58:10,480
comments that you said that stood out to

1684
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:12,160
me well one was the somber the somber

1685
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:14,480
heard around the world in a sense and

1686
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:16,319
then you clarified that or you added to

1687
00:58:20,150 --> 00:58:18,400
that by saying sobering oh i was

1688
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:20,160
wondering we can get to that and then

1689
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:21,680
also you mentioned that the charlatans

1690
00:58:25,349 --> 00:58:23,200
of the world will

1691
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:25,359
be shown to be charlatans

1692
00:58:30,069 --> 00:58:27,280
and i again don't know much about this

1693
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:30,079
ufo community but people in the comments

1694
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:32,559
were saying did he mean steven greer

1695
00:58:38,470 --> 00:58:36,799
so why don't you comment on that

1696
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:38,480
you can be as diplomatic as you like i

1697
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:40,000
know that you're you're a relatively

1698
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:44,319
diplomatic person yeah let me um

1699
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:47,119
let me start with by by somber sobering

1700
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:48,799
um

1701
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:51,359
imagine

1702
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:57,520
whether it's through sunday school or

1703
00:59:02,470 --> 00:58:59,040
through

1704
00:59:04,069 --> 00:59:02,480
regular formal education in school or

1705
00:59:05,829 --> 00:59:04,079
what our political leaders have told us

1706
00:59:07,750 --> 00:59:05,839
and yes even maybe our mothers and

1707
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:07,760
fathers around the dinner table have

1708
00:59:12,950 --> 00:59:11,599
told us or maybe at bedtime um about

1709
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:12,960
about who we are

1710
00:59:17,190 --> 00:59:15,520
right in our background in our past

1711
00:59:20,630 --> 00:59:17,200
um

1712
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,640
what if all of that turned out to be

1713
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:23,040
not entirely accurate

1714
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:24,400
in fact

1715
00:59:28,789 --> 00:59:27,680
the very history of of our species

1716
00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:28,799
um

1717
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:33,280
being and our place in this universe

1718
00:59:37,190 --> 00:59:35,040
what if all that is now

1719
00:59:38,710 --> 00:59:37,200
in question

1720
00:59:40,549 --> 00:59:38,720
what if it turns out that a lot of the

1721
00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:40,559
things that we

1722
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:43,119
thought were one way

1723
00:59:46,710 --> 00:59:45,280
aren't

1724
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:46,720
are

1725
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:50,240
to have that honest question with

1726
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:51,839
ourselves

1727
00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:54,559
are we prepared to

1728
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:56,400
to recognize that we're not at the top

1729
01:00:00,789 --> 00:59:58,799
of the food chain potentially

1730
01:00:02,150 --> 01:00:00,799
that we're not the alpha predator that

1731
01:00:03,589 --> 01:00:02,160
we are

1732
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,599
um

1733
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:05,680
maybe somewhere in the middle

1734
01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:09,520
you know it's it's interesting because

1735
01:00:14,230 --> 01:00:11,839
i was having discussion with a friend uh

1736
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:14,240
not too long ago a really we call them

1737
01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:16,240
graybeards in the in in the government

1738
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,599
really really smart guy i'm not going to

1739
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:19,440
mention his name but but i was talking

1740
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:22,000
to him probably a couple months ago

1741
01:00:25,270 --> 01:00:23,680
and this is a guy who was always paid to

1742
01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:25,280
solve the hard problems for the us

1743
01:00:29,589 --> 01:00:27,760
government cold war how do we solve that

1744
01:00:32,150 --> 01:00:29,599
right how do we do these big big things

1745
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:32,160
how do we go in and

1746
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:33,839
and uh and and beat the russians at

1747
01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:36,400
their own game um

1748
01:00:40,549 --> 01:00:38,480
so this guy i respect tremendously and

1749
01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:40,559
and we had a conversation he said you

1750
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:42,880
know lou um

1751
01:00:47,030 --> 01:00:44,799
mankind's been around for a little while

1752
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:47,040
and for most of that time mankind's been

1753
01:00:50,710 --> 01:00:48,799
around we've been smack in the middle of

1754
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,720
the food chain we've been

1755
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,280
um you know we we ate a lot of things a

1756
01:00:56,950 --> 01:00:55,280
lot of things ate us and that's just the

1757
01:00:58,950 --> 01:00:56,960
bottom line

1758
01:01:00,549 --> 01:00:58,960
and about 70 000 years ago something

1759
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:00,559
fundamentally changed

1760
01:01:07,349 --> 01:01:03,920
something changed and and our species

1761
01:01:09,430 --> 01:01:07,359
was instantly catapulted to the very top

1762
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:09,440
of our planet as far as predatory

1763
01:01:13,190 --> 01:01:10,960
animals

1764
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:13,200
and um

1765
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:15,200
and now all of a sudden

1766
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:17,119
we became the most feared

1767
01:01:22,950 --> 01:01:20,640
um we we were the most lethal

1768
01:01:25,030 --> 01:01:22,960
and the most successful yeah so that's

1769
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,040
uh you know the clip that people talk

1770
01:01:28,470 --> 01:01:27,040
about there's been videos uh sort of

1771
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:28,480
made about that

1772
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:30,319
uh

1773
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:32,240
just a great exposition

1774
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:33,119
on

1775
01:01:37,510 --> 01:01:34,559
our place

1776
01:01:38,630 --> 01:01:37,520
in in the universe as we understand it

1777
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:38,640
uh

1778
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,640
this topic the topic of ufos and the

1779
01:01:49,349 --> 01:01:46,559
phenomenon high strangeness may very

1780
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:49,359
well rewrite everything that we know

1781
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,720
about uh who we are um

1782
01:01:58,069 --> 01:01:54,960
you know to me that is very profound

1783
01:01:59,589 --> 01:01:58,079
uh you know it is it is somber uh somber

1784
01:02:01,910 --> 01:01:59,599
in the sense that

1785
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:01,920
you know there's so much that we have

1786
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:05,599
uh built on top of our uh these

1787
01:02:09,270 --> 01:02:07,680
structures of knowledge that we've that

1788
01:02:11,190 --> 01:02:09,280
we all have inherited you know when

1789
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:11,200
we're born into the world where we come

1790
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,319
into a uh onto onto a stage that we have

1791
01:02:19,589 --> 01:02:16,559
not created and we playing a part on

1792
01:02:21,270 --> 01:02:19,599
that stage uh in a play that we you know

1793
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:21,280
really kind of learning the lines as we

1794
01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:22,160
go

1795
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:24,880
um and so then to find out that uh what

1796
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:28,079
we thought was incredibly firm and and

1797
01:02:32,150 --> 01:02:29,760
sure and solid

1798
01:02:33,910 --> 01:02:32,160
uh is very much not the case and we're

1799
01:02:36,150 --> 01:02:33,920
gonna have to do a lot of rewriting and

1800
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:36,160
re-understanding and that can be very

1801
01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:39,520
destabilizing particularly as that

1802
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:41,920
process really trickles down

1803
01:02:46,470 --> 01:02:44,319
into all facets of our society and then

1804
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:46,480
into our our understandings of our own

1805
01:02:50,789 --> 01:02:48,880
selves and our families so you can very

1806
01:02:52,630 --> 01:02:50,799
easily see how

1807
01:02:55,029 --> 01:02:52,640
this you know new knowledge new

1808
01:02:57,990 --> 01:02:55,039
awareness really changes the game

1809
01:02:59,829 --> 01:02:58,000
uh you know so and he also talks about

1810
01:03:03,829 --> 01:02:59,839
in that clip

1811
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:03,839
the uh this famous sort of 70 000 years

1812
01:03:06,870 --> 01:03:05,119
ago

1813
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:06,880
that

1814
01:03:12,309 --> 01:03:09,440
you know something dramatic changed in

1815
01:03:15,109 --> 01:03:12,319
our trajectory we went from being in

1816
01:03:16,710 --> 01:03:15,119
kind of a type of homeostasis with our

1817
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:16,720
environment to being

1818
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:18,720
you know this uh sort of amazing apex

1819
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:20,559
predator and uh

1820
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:22,960
you know plenty of examples of us

1821
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:25,920
hunting to extinction uh the megafauna

1822
01:03:29,190 --> 01:03:26,720
that

1823
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:29,200
populated pretty much every land mass on

1824
01:03:33,029 --> 01:03:30,960
the globe

1825
01:03:34,870 --> 01:03:33,039
and so the the sort of hint there at

1826
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:34,880
least a lot of folks have taken it to

1827
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:37,280
mean to be a hint that there was a

1828
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:39,200
you know kind of a hand in that change

1829
01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,720
that it didn't just happen by

1830
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:42,720
happenstance it

1831
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:44,559
was directed and engineered to some

1832
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:45,440
degree

1833
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:46,960
uh i've always wanted to get your

1834
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:48,240
thoughts on that you know do you think

1835
01:03:51,910 --> 01:03:50,640
that that is a um

1836
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:51,920
you know that's something that we can

1837
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:53,839
take to the bank that there's a you know

1838
01:03:58,069 --> 01:03:55,520
real indication that something may have

1839
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:58,079
happened around that time and uh and if

1840
01:04:02,470 --> 01:04:00,720
so what what might it mean

1841
01:04:04,309 --> 01:04:02,480
yeah that is the mother lode clip for

1842
01:04:05,910 --> 01:04:04,319
sure um

1843
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:05,920
let's sort of break it down a bit a few

1844
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:08,000
things at a time and remind me if i miss

1845
01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:10,720
any of the elements first first on this

1846
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:12,960
um these these words they chose these

1847
01:04:17,750 --> 01:04:16,000
terms right somber and sobering

1848
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:17,760
so i remember when that first came out

1849
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,200
again i was

1850
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:21,839
a tad frustrated that people said oh

1851
01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:23,599
lou's saying it's bad to use i mean what

1852
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:25,599
else can those words mean so basically

1853
01:04:28,710 --> 01:04:27,520
it's independence day we're in a tough

1854
01:04:30,549 --> 01:04:28,720
we're in a tough spot you know they're

1855
01:04:32,470 --> 01:04:30,559
going to come here with like you know

1856
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:32,480
their entire armada

1857
01:04:36,390 --> 01:04:34,160
of alien ships and they're going to like

1858
01:04:37,990 --> 01:04:36,400
you know we need will smith to save us

1859
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:38,000
right it's our only hope

1860
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:40,400
so you know and what he's really saying

1861
01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:45,190
if you have

1862
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:47,680
a lot of faith built up around the way

1863
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:50,000
we interpret our history and we

1864
01:04:53,109 --> 01:04:51,839
interpret reality

1865
01:04:58,309 --> 01:04:53,119
and

1866
01:05:00,069 --> 01:04:58,319
species largely rests on those

1867
01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,079
presuppositions about who we are in our

1868
01:05:03,510 --> 01:05:02,480
history maybe maybe even our religious

1869
01:05:06,150 --> 01:05:03,520
history

1870
01:05:08,390 --> 01:05:06,160
then you may be in for a a rude

1871
01:05:09,670 --> 01:05:08,400
awakening of sorts

1872
01:05:11,750 --> 01:05:09,680
because

1873
01:05:12,950 --> 01:05:11,760
what we learn may call of that into

1874
01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:12,960
question

1875
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:16,480
and that is sobering in the sense that

1876
01:05:20,630 --> 01:05:18,880
it makes you stop and think it gives you

1877
01:05:23,349 --> 01:05:20,640
pause right it doesn't necessarily mean

1878
01:05:25,349 --> 01:05:23,359
it's negative and it just means

1879
01:05:26,630 --> 01:05:25,359
some people get very attached to a

1880
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:26,640
certain definition of who they are and

1881
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:28,799
again going back to my buddhist training

1882
01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:30,400
they really try to get you to not do

1883
01:05:34,150 --> 01:05:32,079
that to loosen up those connections

1884
01:05:37,430 --> 01:05:34,160
because actually freedom comes in not

1885
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:37,440
being too closely identified

1886
01:05:40,230 --> 01:05:38,559
with any

1887
01:05:41,510 --> 01:05:40,240
perspective any identity because it

1888
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:41,520
actually creates suffering because you

1889
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,280
can lose those things right whereas life

1890
01:05:47,910 --> 01:05:45,359
is just shift and change and

1891
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:47,920
constant movement right

1892
01:05:51,750 --> 01:05:50,400
so i i don't

1893
01:05:54,309 --> 01:05:51,760
my personal experience when i hear that

1894
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,319
is not one of a sober experience because

1895
01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:56,880
i already see reality that way i already

1896
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:58,400
as we've talked about already on this

1897
01:06:02,950 --> 01:06:00,559
episode been through several iterations

1898
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:02,960
where my the way i saw myself us as a

1899
01:06:07,270 --> 01:06:05,280
species reality has shifted

1900
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,280
that's number one now on this this

1901
01:06:11,589 --> 01:06:09,440
question of this yeah he's kind of

1902
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:11,599
implying a kind of

1903
01:06:15,270 --> 01:06:13,280
bioengineering that happened so many

1904
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:15,280
thousand years ago

1905
01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:17,039
that what he's basically saying

1906
01:06:20,710 --> 01:06:18,799
and i've heard this you know mentioned

1907
01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:20,720
elsewhere is that

1908
01:06:25,430 --> 01:06:23,760
the evolutionary process itself should

1909
01:06:27,910 --> 01:06:25,440
show a certain kind of progress a

1910
01:06:30,630 --> 01:06:27,920
certain rate of progress right

1911
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:30,640
and as far as we understand it

1912
01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:32,480
and there's this leap that happened 70

1913
01:06:36,150 --> 01:06:34,240
000 years ago that even evolutionary

1914
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:36,160
biologists have a very hard time

1915
01:06:39,510 --> 01:06:37,839
explaining according to how we

1916
01:06:41,270 --> 01:06:39,520
understand evolution

1917
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:41,280
now some might argue well maybe there's

1918
01:06:46,710 --> 01:06:43,760
just variables we don't understand yet

1919
01:06:48,309 --> 01:06:46,720
um or as he's implying

1920
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:48,319
in this context when we're talking about

1921
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:50,000
alien life and

1922
01:06:54,230 --> 01:06:51,200
all this

1923
01:06:57,029 --> 01:06:54,240
maybe some greater intelligence

1924
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:57,039
came in and did some editing in real

1925
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,920
time

1926
01:07:01,750 --> 01:06:59,680
uploaded some new source code so to

1927
01:07:03,589 --> 01:07:01,760
speak into our dna and that suddenly

1928
01:07:06,069 --> 01:07:03,599
allowed us to take a very different

1929
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:06,079
place different position within the

1930
01:07:08,870 --> 01:07:07,599
entire biosphere

1931
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:08,880
that seems to be what he's implying what

1932
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:10,400
do you take away from it

1933
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:11,520
yeah

1934
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:14,480
well existential comes to mind so the

1935
01:07:18,549 --> 01:07:16,240
word somber

1936
01:07:21,430 --> 01:07:18,559
to me is uh

1937
01:07:23,829 --> 01:07:21,440
you know is existential

1938
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:23,839
and if you've

1939
01:07:28,230 --> 01:07:25,760
lived long enough and have had enough

1940
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:28,240
experiences you've gone through at least

1941
01:07:32,010 --> 01:07:29,119
one

1942
01:07:33,190 --> 01:07:32,020
period of existential crisis

1943
01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:33,200
[Music]

1944
01:07:38,309 --> 01:07:36,240
and that doesn't mean that

1945
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:38,319
that you're dying you know that means

1946
01:07:44,069 --> 01:07:41,520
that the world that you knew

1947
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:44,079
that that you thought you understood is

1948
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:46,000
is not there anymore it's gone it's

1949
01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:48,960
changed in a fundamental way

1950
01:07:53,589 --> 01:07:51,599
that then changes everything else about

1951
01:07:55,270 --> 01:07:53,599
you

1952
01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:55,280
and

1953
01:08:00,549 --> 01:07:58,400
it's usually in retrospect that we look

1954
01:08:01,829 --> 01:08:00,559
at those moments and say i'm glad that i

1955
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:01,839
went through that

1956
01:08:05,430 --> 01:08:03,760
i'm glad that i had that experience

1957
01:08:08,150 --> 01:08:05,440
because now i have a better

1958
01:08:12,069 --> 01:08:08,160
understanding of who i am and and how

1959
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:12,079
things function and i feel that i am

1960
01:08:15,490 --> 01:08:13,760
better prepared

1961
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:15,500
more mature wiser

1962
01:08:18,630 --> 01:08:16,960
[Music]

1963
01:08:21,910 --> 01:08:18,640
with luck we can all look at those

1964
01:08:23,990 --> 01:08:21,920
experiences and come to that conclusion

1965
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,000
and so that's what i think about when i

1966
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:26,719
think about somber i think that it is uh

1967
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:29,040
it is a confrontation

1968
01:08:33,990 --> 01:08:32,880
uh to us as a species

1969
01:08:34,870 --> 01:08:34,000
it is a

1970
01:08:37,349 --> 01:08:34,880
uh

1971
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:37,359
a catalyst it is a moment of change that

1972
01:08:42,550 --> 01:08:40,080
we are going to have to wrestle with

1973
01:08:44,789 --> 01:08:42,560
that will redefine who we are

1974
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:44,799
and that will be challenging you know

1975
01:08:51,030 --> 01:08:48,159
we'll come with some serious

1976
01:08:54,870 --> 01:08:51,040
uh dark nights of the soul

1977
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:54,880
and uh you know sort of

1978
01:08:59,110 --> 01:08:57,440
force us to you know take a hard look at

1979
01:09:00,630 --> 01:08:59,120
ourselves in the mirror and

1980
01:09:01,910 --> 01:09:00,640
you know kind of say what's really going

1981
01:09:03,829 --> 01:09:01,920
on here

1982
01:09:04,789 --> 01:09:03,839
but just like the experiences of our own

1983
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:04,799
lives

1984
01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:06,319
that i just mentioned that you know i'd

1985
01:09:11,910 --> 01:09:08,480
like to believe that we will go we will

1986
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,920
push through that we will do the work

1987
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,440
and that uh

1988
01:09:17,910 --> 01:09:16,000
that we can do the work you know i'm an

1989
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:17,920
optimist i'm hopeful that we have the

1990
01:09:22,630 --> 01:09:19,679
tool set that we can do the work

1991
01:09:24,390 --> 01:09:22,640
necessary to arrive at a point in the

1992
01:09:25,990 --> 01:09:24,400
future where we will look back and we

1993
01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:26,000
will say you know what i'm really glad

1994
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:28,400
it was better to have known that

1995
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:30,640
than to have been in the dark

1996
01:09:34,229 --> 01:09:32,640
and and i'm grateful

1997
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,239
you know so that that's what i think

1998
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:36,719
about uh when we get into the subject

1999
01:09:41,269 --> 01:09:38,799
and uh you know that's why i'm very

2000
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,279
optimistic and hopeful that as this uh

2001
01:09:44,950 --> 01:09:43,120
you know continues and we

2002
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:44,960
you know get more of a public discourse

2003
01:09:49,590 --> 01:09:47,440
around this topic that uh it really will

2004
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:49,600
elevate you know kind of who we are and

2005
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:51,839
and where we are in our in our point in

2006
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:53,600
history

2007
01:09:59,430 --> 01:09:57,280
yeah absolutely i agree with that and

2008
01:10:02,790 --> 01:09:59,440
yeah existential crisis is a great term

2009
01:10:05,110 --> 01:10:02,800
to use i think that's very apt and again

2010
01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:05,120
the more closely identified you are with

2011
01:10:08,550 --> 01:10:06,880
a certain view of the world view of

2012
01:10:10,390 --> 01:10:08,560
history

2013
01:10:12,070 --> 01:10:10,400
view of who you are

2014
01:10:15,270 --> 01:10:12,080
the more existential crisis you're

2015
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:15,280
likely to experience when this all comes

2016
01:10:18,310 --> 01:10:16,560
comes clear

2017
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:18,320
uh to whatever degree it does and as

2018
01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:19,679
we've talked about before in the show

2019
01:10:23,669 --> 01:10:21,280
we've talked about disclosure and what

2020
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:23,679
that means and we've discussed how

2021
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,280
really what's in play is our very

2022
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:27,199
definition of reality

2023
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:28,400
you know

2024
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:29,679
full stop

2025
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,480
who we are who they are what is reality

2026
01:10:35,030 --> 01:10:34,080
what is the waking experience what is

2027
01:10:36,709 --> 01:10:35,040
dreaming

2028
01:10:38,709 --> 01:10:36,719
are these just different modalities you

2029
01:10:40,310 --> 01:10:38,719
know what is life what is death you know

2030
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:40,320
what is reincarnation

2031
01:10:43,750 --> 01:10:42,000
all these these issues come into play

2032
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:43,760
here and um you know part of the reason

2033
01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,520
why i call my podcast point of

2034
01:10:48,870 --> 01:10:47,520
convergence is because

2035
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,880
this is what we see right these

2036
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:50,320
overlapping

2037
01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:52,159
fields of interest that seem to be

2038
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:53,520
speaking to each other and speaking to

2039
01:10:56,709 --> 01:10:54,850
some larger reality

2040
01:10:59,030 --> 01:10:56,719
[Applause]

2041
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,040
yeah i think um

2042
01:11:03,669 --> 01:11:01,280
we've talked a fair bit about you know

2043
01:11:05,430 --> 01:11:03,679
who we are where we come from biology

2044
01:11:07,189 --> 01:11:05,440
genetics that kind of thing you know

2045
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:07,199
there's i remember even recently seeing

2046
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:09,600
uh an article that talked about all of

2047
01:11:12,870 --> 01:11:10,960
the basic

2048
01:11:15,430 --> 01:11:12,880
elements of life

2049
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:15,440
can be found on meteorites yeah right so

2050
01:11:18,709 --> 01:11:17,360
the idea is that

2051
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:18,719
there's various ways you can define

2052
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:21,600
yourself as hybrid or alien right and so

2053
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:23,600
um what they're basically saying is all

2054
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:25,280
of the ingredients for life may have

2055
01:11:28,709 --> 01:11:26,400
come here

2056
01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:28,719
on meteors in the past from various

2057
01:11:33,270 --> 01:11:30,560
places around the cosmos

2058
01:11:34,630 --> 01:11:33,280
and then formed here which again raises

2059
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:34,640
the question are we really even

2060
01:11:38,310 --> 01:11:36,320
earthlings right you know

2061
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,320
um and you could even argue that that

2062
01:11:41,590 --> 01:11:40,320
might not even be just a natural process

2063
01:11:43,750 --> 01:11:41,600
right it may be that some greater

2064
01:11:45,669 --> 01:11:43,760
intelligence deliberately

2065
01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:45,679
spread these ingredients you know

2066
01:11:49,430 --> 01:11:48,000
sprinkled yeah throughout the cosmos

2067
01:11:52,149 --> 01:11:49,440
knowing that

2068
01:11:53,990 --> 01:11:52,159
it would eventually impact planets and

2069
01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:54,000
eventually that would exceed life and it

2070
01:11:58,229 --> 01:11:55,440
would grow into intelligent life and

2071
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:58,239
maybe in the technology was encoded in

2072
01:12:01,590 --> 01:12:00,000
the dna so that it knew that over

2073
01:12:03,110 --> 01:12:01,600
millions of years

2074
01:12:03,910 --> 01:12:03,120
that would become us

2075
01:12:05,189 --> 01:12:03,920
right

2076
01:12:06,870 --> 01:12:05,199
and again

2077
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:06,880
i'm also an optimist when i think about

2078
01:12:11,270 --> 01:12:09,199
these things and what i see is i'm not

2079
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:11,280
saying it's all you know love and light

2080
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:14,159
and it's all you know glory right but i

2081
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:15,760
do think what's

2082
01:12:19,510 --> 01:12:17,520
what's in play is maybe a kind of family

2083
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:19,520
reunion of sorts which is much broader

2084
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:21,120
much deeper than we've uh we've

2085
01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:23,440
previously assumed

2086
01:12:28,149 --> 01:12:26,239
i love that idea um and you know some of

2087
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:28,159
you may not enjoy family reunions but i

2088
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:30,080
always find them really interesting

2089
01:12:34,709 --> 01:12:31,920
you know they are definitely that uh

2090
01:12:36,950 --> 01:12:34,719
it's like thanksgiving on steroids

2091
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:36,960
but opportunities to connect

2092
01:12:41,590 --> 01:12:38,880
uh with those in your family and

2093
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:41,600
extended family uh that i think you know

2094
01:12:44,550 --> 01:12:43,199
kind of better

2095
01:12:45,910 --> 01:12:44,560
uh

2096
01:12:48,229 --> 01:12:45,920
give you a chance to better understand

2097
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:48,239
who you are um and and i'm always for

2098
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:50,080
that you know the the more that we can

2099
01:12:53,270 --> 01:12:51,679
understand who we are and our

2100
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:53,280
motivations and the way we think about

2101
01:12:57,430 --> 01:12:54,960
the world i think that that's a good

2102
01:12:58,310 --> 01:12:57,440
thing at the end of the day

2103
01:13:00,870 --> 01:12:58,320
um

2104
01:13:02,470 --> 01:13:00,880
well the the sun is uh is setting and

2105
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:02,480
and it's interesting when you live where

2106
01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:04,800
we live when the sun gets below the the

2107
01:13:08,790 --> 01:13:05,920
tree line

2108
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:08,800
the temperature really drops with it uh

2109
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:10,960
this has been a fun experiment uh i know

2110
01:13:14,229 --> 01:13:12,640
we're gonna do this again and we're

2111
01:13:15,910 --> 01:13:14,239
gonna do it in different environments

2112
01:13:18,870 --> 01:13:15,920
just to test out some different settings

2113
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:18,880
but i'm hoping that our audience uh

2114
01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:21,600
you know has enjoyed this that that um

2115
01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:23,360
you guys have been able to uh

2116
01:13:28,149 --> 01:13:25,760
distinguish the signal from the noise

2117
01:13:31,030 --> 01:13:28,159
um and they're very much like uh what

2118
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:31,040
we've tried to do in this episode that

2119
01:13:34,390 --> 01:13:33,280
uh you know you've been able to kind of

2120
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:34,400
tease out

2121
01:13:37,750 --> 01:13:35,920
you know some nuggets of good

2122
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:37,760
information uh

2123
01:13:43,189 --> 01:13:40,159
from from what has taken place

2124
01:13:45,750 --> 01:13:43,199
um exo what are your thoughts on this uh

2125
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:45,760
on this very natural experiment we have

2126
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:47,360
embarked on

2127
01:13:51,189 --> 01:13:49,360
it's been good it's uh it's been an

2128
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:51,199
experience and uh i look forward to

2129
01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:53,440
doing more of it and to add to your

2130
01:13:57,430 --> 01:13:55,920
descriptor of the environment not only

2131
01:13:59,590 --> 01:13:57,440
is the sun going down but the mosquitoes

2132
01:14:01,750 --> 01:13:59,600
are also coming out so it seems like a

2133
01:14:02,950 --> 01:14:01,760
nap time to draw this particular episode

2134
01:14:05,189 --> 01:14:02,960
to a close

2135
01:14:07,990 --> 01:14:05,199
yes very well said

2136
01:14:10,470 --> 01:14:08,000
well thank you all for listening

2137
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:10,480
may the quality of our questions shaped

2138
01:14:15,910 --> 01:14:13,199
by a desire for understanding

2139
01:14:18,310 --> 01:14:15,920
enhance our journey of discovery

2140
01:14:20,790 --> 01:14:18,320
and may our travels broaden the sphere

2141
01:14:22,950 --> 01:14:20,800
of our consciousness reminding us that

2142
01:14:24,870 --> 01:14:22,960
new discoveries beget

2143
01:14:26,149 --> 01:14:24,880
new horizons

2144
01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:26,159
as always

2145
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:29,440
adventure awaits we'll see you next time

2146
01:14:56,420 --> 01:14:55,830
[Music]